Received: from mail-ig0-f186.google.com ([209.85.213.186]:47202) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XOtcP-0003lt-Et for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:19:54 -0700 Received: by mail-ig0-f186.google.com with SMTP id a13sf1700197igq.23 for ; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:19:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=qbVJcQNHYQmNaze4plChDM08GEwhCJ+CdZ4hWYwQ4Ng=; b=UuhaFM/H1gH0LiuJGKbJ/nOJmpbWBizynjcDGe8M/JxBaonbcCiXVmyrDLFSau4Sck Wgl+ZB+Ow2fdOY0c82ik89heyQWKgvNJsaWVYpmSlJRIdi+u4eX7isGau/LPkTx0vSvY XBSDfPUjluEmQ7ezP/gyRyeJaoHsPbdJJbESI7fh/S5T9uzqTsgx3cQD0487M35uNhRI xF70zBRhhlv/+pB1d5qnDVJC2KDodf8d++S5pnd/nokKc/dk8VAv/ZktBdl85z+LKQa4 GPC5ZfdFR8w+LJttTEes3t73KTdgwQp1R17ufQEc5L8V3vyGZQS9wGxSEM45pNfyqwTF +D9Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=qbVJcQNHYQmNaze4plChDM08GEwhCJ+CdZ4hWYwQ4Ng=; b=BjaiFtEU9jzkmaoa4uX0Vk7QzfrDC1iBxMkfpW69rQzQTkoPAdRgQFlONf/J2S6ZP8 NGNermDq9BEU00j7bABuePc15vu82dUGiMJ8MMB8GeB5+GRZji7aHI4BX7o7U0JwFY+1 M9mEcpuwgtFvhLpUuQcUztnA21pOFY4EbYGfYJCG0bZefR6RaoW1EpveFuKqaz+c2X0A OH+0zObcA3McWXqltqrRTng6mWzqDtEgs0uZyF8OfuRRE7Oh+61iTKAVn8pFoz1HquYo JYEYyij/W/79ImxY4fuqMnOaUpGzhK11Mi9/IekGjU8V1ZNIGm53hHWdQcIPCt+oqH4O zg6w== X-Received: by 10.140.37.227 with SMTP id r90mr75750qgr.13.1409685586940; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:19:46 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.91.132 with SMTP id z4ls2408244qgd.99.gmail; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:19:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.22.85 with SMTP id 79mr34343qgm.35.1409685586672; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 12:19:46 -0700 (PDT) From: ianek To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20140901185644.GC5163@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> Subject: Re: [lojban] criticism of lojban needed MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: janek37@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4018_2011629038.1409685586203" X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - ------=_Part_4018_2011629038.1409685586203 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 My two major complaints: * it's hard to learn and remember all places of some gismu and lujvo, and their order * terminators are hard to parse by humans when they're nested in several layers (vau kei ku vau vau) mu' mi'e ianek On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 9:10:24 AM UTC+2, la gleki wrote: > > > > > 2014-09-01 22:56 GMT+04:00 Robin Lee Powell >: > >> On Mon, Sep 01, 2014 at 12:07:01PM +0400, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: >> > the wikipedia article about lojban might need a short list of criticism >> of >> > lojban with links (e.g. to posts in this mailing list). Balanced >> criticism >> > actually makes languages more popular, so it's advisable to make such a >> > list. >> > >> > Here are some thoughts: >> >> My troubles actually speaking the thing on a daily basis: >> >> 1. The total lack of idiom >> >> 2. The incredible self-similarity of the gismu makes keeping them >> straight extremely difficult for me in practice (i.e. when speaking >> at full speed). >> >> 3. *WAY* too many c/s/j sounds; so many accidental tounge twisters >> > > Tongue twisters can be applied to 2. as well, right? > > In general I think your three points are more important than other > suggestions. > Could you publish them on a wiki or on your website so that we can link to > it from Wikipedia? > > >> >> -- >> http://intelligence.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. >> .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i dafsku lu na go'i li'u .e >> lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e >> lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni >> li'u >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_4018_2011629038.1409685586203 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My two major complaints:

* it's hard to learn and r= emember all places of some gismu and lujvo, and their order
* terminator= s are hard to parse by humans when they're nested in several layers (vau ke= i ku vau vau)

mu' mi'e ianek

On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 9:= 10:24 AM UTC+2, la gleki wrote:



2014-09-01 22= :56 GMT+04:00 Robin Lee Powell <rlpo...@digitalkingdom.org>:
On Mon, Sep 01, 2014 at 12:07:01PM +040= 0, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
> the wikipedia article about lojban might need a short list of criticis= m of
> lojban with links (e.g. to posts in this mailing list). Balanced criti= cism
> actually makes languages more popular, so it's advisable to make such = a
> list.
>
> Here are some thoughts:

My troubles actually speaking the thing on a daily basis:

1.  The total lack of idiom

2.  The incredible self-similarity of the gismu makes keeping them
straight extremely difficult for me in practice (i.e. when speaking
at full speed).

3.  *WAY* too many c/s/j sounds; so many accidental tounge twisters

Tongue twisters can be applied to 2. as w= ell, right?

In general I think your three points a= re more important than other suggestions.
Could you publish them on a wiki or on your website so that we can lin= k to it from Wikipedia?
 

--
lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni li= 'u

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
------=_Part_4018_2011629038.1409685586203--