Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 13:56:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: ianek <janek37@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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Subject: [lojban] Trying to understand "lo mi jufra"
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coi ro do

I really like the song "lo mi jufra" by selpa'i:=20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DsLrmjRIMgAk. But I'm not fluent in Lojban=
=20
and it took me some time to translate it and some parts still aren't clear.

Here's what I have:

{doi ro da poi pu denpa .i la selpa'i ba'o xruti}
You all who waited: selpa'i has returned.

Chorus:

{.i ge lo mi jufra cu balmau lo me lo drata ku moi gi lo mi jufra cu larcu}
My sentences are greater than those of others and my sentences are an art,

{ja'e lo nu ge lo mi jufra cu melmau lo me lo drata ku moi gi lo mi jufra=
=20
cu selzau vau kei ku vau vau}
therefore my sentences are more beautiful than those of others and my=20
sentences are approved.

Note: according to camxes, the part after {ja'e} is related only to {lo mi=
=20
jufra cu larcu}, not to {lo mi jufra cu balmau}. The first {vau} terminated=
=20
the {selzau} part, the second terminates the {larcu} part and the third=20
terminated the whole bridi (compare to: {ge broda gi brode vau vau}).


Verse 1:

{.i mi pu pagre lo rictu'a pe lo tsurotro'u tricu ge'u}
I passed through a forest of thick-thick-thick trees.

{rotsu} means "x1 is thick in dimension/direction x2 by standard x3", so=20
{tsurotro'u} probably means "x1 is thick in all three dimensions by=20
standard x2".

{.e ba bo lo concoicno xamsi sei lo barda ku ditcu fau lo nu no da mi sidju=
}
and then a deep-deep-deep sea (a lot of time) while nobody helped me.

{condi} has the same place structure as {rotsu}. {lo barda ku ditcu}=20
literally means "Something big is the elapsed time".

{.i mi lo ckape pu midju}
I was in a middle of danger.

{.i ku'i mi zukte lo se nitcu}
But I did what was necessary.

{.i mi to'e ri'a nai snada. i li'a dai go'i}
I not-despite-cause succeeded. Obviously (for you).

{to'e ri'a nai} is a double negation. I'm not sure it means anything=20
different than {ri'a}.

{.i krinu fa lo nu mi pilno lo mi blolotlo'i}
The reason was that I used my boat-boat-boat.

{.i .ei ko na tolmo'i lo du'u lo drata cu si'akro ca lo nu mi jbikla}
You mustn't forget that others respectfully bow when I approach.

{.i mi vlalinkei ca lo nu mi sipna}
I play the Lojban word chaining game when I sleep.

{.i je mi na rinpei ba lo nu mi do vimcu bo tadji tikpa}
And I don't think about reasons after I (removing-method) kick you.

I'm not sure about {vimcu tadji tikpa}. How to kick with "removing method"=
=20
and how is it different than {vimcu tikpa}? ({bo} is redundant in this=20
sentence).
And it appears to me that it would make more sense to say "I don't hesitate=
=20
*before* I kick you out", not "after".

{.i mi li'a fincei soi crano}
I'm clearly the Creator [Loglanic grin].

{soi crano} is not Lojban, it's Loglan. Loglan didn't have attitudinals and=
=20
they had to used {soi} for such things ({soi} is Loglanic version of=20
{sei}). In Lojban it would be {sei cisma}, but nobody says that, because we=
=20
have ui/u'i/zo'o etc.

{.i gidva do tu'a lo du'u lo du'u mi crerai na ku kei ku jitfa}
[I] guide you in the fact that the fact that I'm not the greatest expert is=
=20
false.

This is a nice double negation. gidva3 is an event, which is why there's=20
{tu'a}, but I'm not sure what is the event in which to be guided. I=20
understand that means something like "I explain to you the structure of=20
this complex phrase", but I'm not sure.

{.i cizra je ci'izra sei mi ji'a cusku si'a be ca lo nu mi viska lo nu do=
=20
lo so'u mei poi lojbo cu ciska}
"Curiouser and curiouser" is similar to what I say when I see that you=20
write few things in Lojban.

{cizra je ci'izra} is what Alice said at the beginning of the Lojban=20
translation of "Alice in Wonderland".

{.i ku'i mi sanga je to'e mu'i nai cisma}
But I sing and not-despite-motive smile.

What is the motive of smiling? It's not clear.


Verse 2:

{.i ze'a lo nu lo drata ku jbodau zo'u mi se ba'i finti lo jbomau ku}
Concerning medium-length-of-time of others arguing about Lojban, I instead=
=20
invent a better Lojban.

I'm not sure what {ze'a} does in that place. It would be clearer to me if=
=20
it were inside {lo nu}.
{jbodau} might as well mean "argue in Lojban". {jbomau} means literally=20
"more Lojbanic".

{.i mi se frili fe tu'a lo jbobau}
For me, easy is Lojban.

{.i ku'i do naljmi lo du'u lo jbobau cu mo kau}
But you don't understand what is Lojban.

{.i ko vau .i uu nai ta do mrovau}
Do. [cruelty] This is your coffin.

{ko vau} is an elliptical imperative, the command is to be guessed.=20
Probably it means {ko jimpe lo du'u lo jbobau cu mo kau}.
I don't know what is the metaphorical coffin. Trying to understand Lojban?=
=20
Or not understanding it?

{.i uo nau pu'o gau mi mi lo lojbo ku procau}
[completion] I'll make myself unchallenged about Lojban.

{pu'o procau} means, as I understand, "anticipate being unchallenged". So=
=20
why {uo}?

{.i ki'u bo mi tronau}
This is because I'm a controlling-male

(alpha male?)

{gi'e kakne lo ka minde lo so rau mei ku lo ka ce'u do spogau}
and I can issue commands to nine-enough for destroying you.


Why nine? Other than that nine is enough :) Nine people? It's not clear.

{.i no .au da zo'u da senpi tu'a mi}
I want nobody to doubt me.

{.i do nau pu ke norsi'a bo dukse}
You had too much lack of respect.

It's not disrespect, that would be {tolsi'a}. {norsi'a} is being neutral=20
with regard to respect. And you did it too much.

{.i do xabju la jbogugde}
You live in Lojbanistan.

{.i ba'e mi xabju lo=20
jbojevysofkemsuzgugje'ake'eborke=C2=ADmfaipaltrusi'oke'ekemgubyseltru}
*I* live in the Lojbanic Soviet Federative Socialist Republic.

It's in jbovlaste.

{.i do lo du'u di'u ma kau selsmu cu na djuno}
You don't know what that means.

{.i do retsku lu xu pelxu li'u ki'u lo nu do selfi'u}
You ask "is it yellow?", because you're confused.

This is an absurd question in this context, but remember, you're confused.

{.i ie lo nu crebi'o cu barda nunli'u}
I agree: becoming an expert is a big travel.

{.i ku'i naltoi fa lo tolvri .e do mi'u}
But a coward doesn't try, and you ditto.


Verse 3 Part 1:

{.i ro lo mi nunzu'e cu ro roi se manci}
All my actions are always awesome.

{.i mi banli co'a lo cerni gi'e nalsti ca lo vanci}
I'm great starting from the morning and I don't stop at the evening.

{.i mi ca lo nu tolcanci cu simlu lo ka palci}
When I appear, I seem to be evil.

{.i ku'i je'u mi na palci}
But really I'm not evil.

{.i lo jbovla mi nalci}
Lojbanic words are my wings.

{.i lo do prosa cu kalci}
Your prose is shit.

{.i lo remna mi salci}
Humans celebrate mi.

{.i lo remna do salci na'i}
'Humans celebrate you' doesn't makes sense.

It's hard to translate {na'i}.

{.i lo ka jinga kei mi tcaci}
Winning is my habit.

{.i mi simsa lo tarci lo ka do ba no roi zvajbi}

I'm like a star: you will never be near.

{.i ko na se spaji}
Don't be surprised.

{.i mi'e la selpa'i ku}
I'm selpa'i.

{.i do lo mabla ku ckaji}
You're characterized by a derogative connotation.

Something like "you're shitty"?

{.i lo do fanmo cu lamji}
Your end is adjacent.

Isn't {lamji} a bit weird here?

{.i ku'i ba'e mi cu cimni jai ranji}
But *I* am eternal and persistent.

Verse 3 Part 2:

{.i xu do na'e djuno fe lo du'u mi na simsa su'o drata}
Don't you know that I'm not like others?

{.i mi brarai be lo ro brama'a}
I'm the biggest of all mountains.

{.i lo ni mi rafcre zo'u:}
About how much of a rafsi expert I am:

{ge do xamsi korbi klama bredi binxo zukte}
You take actions to become prepared to walk by the seashore,

{gi mi xaskoiklabrebi'ozu'e}
and I (do the same, but in one lujvo).

{.i zo .u'e selsku ju'o do}
"Wow" is certainly said by you.

{.i je mi ba'e zengau la'e di'u}
And I *increase* that.

{.i je ba bo fa'a lo me do moi ku mi sputu .u'u cu'i}
And then I spit in your direction with no regret.

{.i mi gu'u kulnu iu gi kusru prenu}
And I am a cultural <3 whether-or-not cruel person.

{.i ie ke'u ba'e zengau la'e di'u pu'o}
Yes, I repeat: going to *increase* that.

He says {ke'u}, but it was without {pu'o} before. Now it refers to being a=
=20
cultural person, not to you saying "wow".

{.i se gu mu curnu cu muvdu tu pu ku mu tubnu}
Whether or not five worms moved from there to five pipes,

It's bonkers from now on. I don't understand a thing, only that most words=
=20
have "u" as the only vowel.

{gi tu sfubu nu vu ru'u gunro lo du be lo du}
that was a diving event of far surrounding rolling of the same thing as the=
=20
same thing.

I like {lo du be lo du}.

{.i mulno tu'o ka ju du'u cunso}
Complete in null being whether-or-not random.

This I don't understand even more. {tu'o} (null) is used as a quantifier=20
for a property of being whether-or-not random, whatever that means.

{.i mi virnu}
I'm brave.

Back to intelligible things.

{.i ju'o mi cusku zo .u'o}
Certainly I say "[courage]".

Hard to translate, but it's clear.

{.i zu'u nai mi fenki ia pu'o}
On the other hand I'm going to go crazy (I believe).

{.i pu'u na pensi fe tu'a lo menli si tu'a lo menli ku lu'u}
Process of not thinking --about mind-- about mind.

I'm sure it should be {sa}, not {si}, it wouldn't even parse otherwise.=20
{lu'u} terminates LAhE, here: {tu'a}.

{.i lo mi ro da ku jbodu'e}
All of my things are too much Lojbanic,

{ja'e lo su'u lo me mi moi cu nu'o nai nonselsmu se .u}
so whether or not my stuff is [not-unrealized potential] nonsense,

camxes and jbofi'e don't accept {nai} after CAhA. And I don't know what=20
would mean {nu'o nai}. Can't but has? Can't or has? And what that would=20
mean in relation to a static property?

{lo zu'o gau mi lo munje ku spofu}
I destroy the universe.

Actually it's more complicated, as I understand, the connective is joining=
=20
sumti here. So it's more like: my things are too Lojbanic, and whether or=
=20
not the result of that is that my stuff is [???] nonsense, the result of=20
that is that I destroy the universe. Connecting sumti with {u} or {o} is=20
weird.

{.i ca'e spoja}
[I define] explodes.

{ca'e} doesn't really fit here in my opinion, but I don't see anything=20
closer to something like "fiat lux" and equally concise.

mu'o mi'e ianek

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<div dir=3D"ltr">coi ro do<br><br>I really like the song "lo mi jufra" by s=
elpa'i: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DsLrmjRIMgAk. But I'm not fluent i=
n Lojban and it took me some time to translate it and some parts still aren=
't clear.<br><br>Here's what I have:<br><br>{doi ro da poi pu denpa .i la s=
elpa'i ba'o xruti}<br>You all who waited: selpa'i has returned.<br><br>Chor=
us:<br><br>{.i ge lo mi jufra cu balmau lo me lo drata ku moi gi lo mi jufr=
a cu larcu}<br>My sentences are greater than those of others and my sentenc=
es are an art,<br><br>{ja'e lo nu ge lo mi jufra cu melmau lo me lo drata k=
u moi gi lo mi jufra cu selzau vau kei ku vau vau}<br>therefore my sentence=
s are more beautiful than those of others and my sentences are approved.<br=
><br>Note: according to camxes, the part after {ja'e} is related only to {l=
o mi jufra cu larcu}, not to {lo mi jufra cu balmau}. The first {vau} termi=
nated the {selzau} part, the second terminates the {larcu} part and the thi=
rd terminated the whole bridi (compare to: {ge broda gi brode vau vau}).<br=
><br><br>Verse 1:<br><br>{.i mi pu pagre lo rictu'a pe lo tsurotro'u tricu =
ge'u}<br>I passed through a forest of thick-thick-thick trees.<br><br>{rots=
u} means "x1 is thick in dimension/direction x2 by standard x3", so {tsurot=
ro'u} probably means "x1 is thick in all three dimensions by standard x2".<=
br><br>{.e ba bo lo concoicno xamsi sei lo barda ku ditcu fau lo nu no da m=
i sidju}<br>and then a deep-deep-deep sea (a lot of time) while nobody help=
ed me.<br><br>{condi} has the same place structure as {rotsu}. {lo barda ku=
 ditcu} literally means "Something big is the elapsed time".<br><br>{.i mi =
lo ckape pu midju}<br>I was in a middle of danger.<br><br>{.i ku'i mi zukte=
 lo se nitcu}<br>But I did what was necessary.<br><br>{.i mi to'e ri'a nai =
snada. i li'a dai go'i}<br>I not-despite-cause succeeded. Obviously (for yo=
u).<br><br>{to'e ri'a nai} is a double negation. I'm not sure it means anyt=
hing different than {ri'a}.<br><br>{.i krinu fa lo nu mi pilno lo mi blolot=
lo'i}<br>The reason was that I used my boat-boat-boat.<br><br>{.i .ei ko na=
 tolmo'i lo du'u lo drata cu si'akro ca lo nu mi jbikla}<br>You mustn't for=
get that others respectfully bow when I approach.<br><br>{.i mi vlalinkei c=
a lo nu mi sipna}<br>I play the Lojban word chaining game when I sleep.<br>=
<br>{.i je mi na rinpei ba lo nu mi do vimcu bo tadji tikpa}<br>And I don't=
 think about reasons after I (removing-method) kick you.<br><br>I'm not sur=
e about {vimcu tadji tikpa}. How to kick with "removing method" and how is =
it different than {vimcu tikpa}? ({bo} is redundant in this sentence).<br>A=
nd it appears to me that it would make more sense to say "I don't hesitate =
*before* I kick you out", not "after".<br><br>{.i mi li'a fincei soi crano}=
<br>I'm clearly the Creator [Loglanic grin].<br><br>{soi crano} is not Lojb=
an, it's Loglan. Loglan didn't have attitudinals and they had to used {soi}=
 for such things ({soi} is Loglanic version of {sei}). In Lojban it would b=
e {sei cisma}, but nobody says that, because we have ui/u'i/zo'o etc.<br><b=
r>{.i gidva do tu'a lo du'u lo du'u mi crerai na ku kei ku jitfa}<br>[I] gu=
ide you in the fact that the fact that I'm not the greatest expert is false=
.<br><br>This is a nice double negation. gidva3 is an event, which is why t=
here's {tu'a}, but I'm not sure what is the event in which to be guided. I =
understand that means something like "I explain to you the structure of thi=
s complex phrase", but I'm not sure.<br><br>{.i cizra je ci'izra sei mi ji'=
a cusku si'a be ca lo nu mi viska lo nu do lo so'u mei poi lojbo cu ciska}<=
br>"Curiouser and curiouser" is similar to what I say when I see that you w=
rite few things in Lojban.<br><br>{cizra je ci'izra} is what Alice said at =
the beginning of the Lojban translation of "Alice in Wonderland".<br><br>{.=
i ku'i mi sanga je to'e mu'i nai cisma}<br>But I sing and not-despite-motiv=
e smile.<br><br>What is the motive of smiling? It's not clear.<br><br><br>V=
erse 2:<br><br>{.i ze'a lo nu lo drata ku jbodau zo'u mi se ba'i finti lo j=
bomau ku}<br>Concerning medium-length-of-time of others arguing about Lojba=
n, I instead invent a better Lojban.<br><br>I'm not sure what {ze'a} does i=
n that place. It would be clearer to me if it were inside {lo nu}.<br>{jbod=
au} might as well mean "argue in Lojban". {jbomau} means literally "more Lo=
jbanic".<br><br>{.i mi se frili fe tu'a lo jbobau}<br>For me, easy is Lojba=
n.<br><br>{.i ku'i do naljmi lo du'u lo jbobau cu mo kau}<br>But you don't =
understand what is Lojban.<br><br>{.i ko vau .i uu nai ta do mrovau}<br>Do.=
 [cruelty] This is your coffin.<br><br>{ko vau} is an elliptical imperative=
, the command is to be guessed. Probably it means {ko jimpe lo du'u lo jbob=
au cu mo kau}.<br>I don't know what is the metaphorical coffin. Trying to u=
nderstand Lojban? Or not understanding it?<br><br>{.i uo nau pu'o gau mi mi=
 lo lojbo ku procau}<br>[completion] I'll make myself unchallenged about Lo=
jban.<br><br>{pu'o procau} means, as I understand, "anticipate being unchal=
lenged". So why {uo}?<br><br>{.i ki'u bo mi tronau}<br>This is because I'm =
a controlling-male<br><br>(alpha male?)<br><br>{gi'e kakne lo ka minde lo s=
o rau mei ku lo ka ce'u do spogau}<br>and I can issue commands to nine-enou=
gh for destroying you.<br><br><br>Why nine? Other than that nine is enough =
:) Nine people? It's not clear.<br><br>{.i no .au da zo'u da senpi tu'a mi}=
<br>I want nobody to doubt me.<br><br>{.i do nau pu ke norsi'a bo dukse}<br=
>You had too much lack of respect.<br><br>It's not disrespect, that would b=
e {tolsi'a}. {norsi'a} is being neutral with regard to respect. And you did=
 it too much.<br><br>{.i do xabju la jbogugde}<br>You live in Lojbanistan.<=
br><br>{.i ba'e mi xabju lo jbojevysofkemsuzgugje'ake'eborke=C2=ADmfaipaltr=
usi'oke'ekemgubyseltru}<br>*I* live in the Lojbanic Soviet Federative Socia=
list Republic.<br><br>It's in jbovlaste.<br><br>{.i do lo du'u di'u ma kau =
selsmu cu na djuno}<br>You don't know what that means.<br><br>{.i do retsku=
 lu xu pelxu li'u ki'u lo nu do selfi'u}<br>You ask "is it yellow?", becaus=
e you're confused.<br><br>This is an absurd question in this context, but r=
emember, you're confused.<br><br>{.i ie lo nu crebi'o cu barda nunli'u}<br>=
I agree: becoming an expert is a big travel.<br><br>{.i ku'i naltoi fa lo t=
olvri .e do mi'u}<br>But a coward doesn't try, and you ditto.<br><br><br>Ve=
rse 3 Part 1:<br><br>{.i ro lo mi nunzu'e cu ro roi se manci}<br>All my act=
ions are always awesome.<br><br>{.i mi banli co'a lo cerni gi'e nalsti ca l=
o vanci}<br>I'm great starting from the morning and I don't stop at the eve=
ning.<br><br>{.i mi ca lo nu tolcanci cu simlu lo ka palci}<br>When I appea=
r, I seem to be evil.<br><br>{.i ku'i je'u mi na palci}<br>But really I'm n=
ot evil.<br><br>{.i lo jbovla mi nalci}<br>Lojbanic words are my wings.<br>=
<br>{.i lo do prosa cu kalci}<br>Your prose is shit.<br><br>{.i lo remna mi=
 salci}<br>Humans celebrate mi.<br><br>{.i lo remna do salci na'i}<br>'Huma=
ns celebrate you' doesn't makes sense.<br><br>It's hard to translate {na'i}=
.<br><br>{.i lo ka jinga kei mi tcaci}<br>Winning is my habit.<br><br>{.i m=
i simsa lo tarci lo ka do ba no roi zvajbi}<br><br>I'm like a star: you wil=
l never be near.<br><br>{.i ko na se spaji}<br>Don't be surprised.<br><br>{=
.i mi'e la selpa'i ku}<br>I'm selpa'i.<br><br>{.i do lo mabla ku ckaji}<br>=
You're characterized by a derogative connotation.<br><br>Something like "yo=
u're shitty"?<br><br>{.i lo do fanmo cu lamji}<br>Your end is adjacent.<br>=
<br>Isn't {lamji} a bit weird here?<br><br>{.i ku'i ba'e mi cu cimni jai ra=
nji}<br>But *I* am eternal and persistent.<br><br>Verse 3 Part 2:<br><br>{.=
i xu do na'e djuno fe lo du'u mi na simsa su'o drata}<br>Don't you know tha=
t I'm not like others?<br><br>{.i mi brarai be lo ro brama'a}<br>I'm the bi=
ggest of all mountains.<br><br>{.i lo ni mi rafcre zo'u:}<br>About how much=
 of a rafsi expert I am:<br><br>{ge do xamsi korbi klama bredi binxo zukte}=
<br>You take actions to become prepared to walk by the seashore,<br><br>{gi=
 mi xaskoiklabrebi'ozu'e}<br>and I (do the same, but in one lujvo).<br><br>=
{.i zo .u'e selsku ju'o do}<br>"Wow" is certainly said by you.<br><br>{.i j=
e mi ba'e zengau la'e di'u}<br>And I *increase* that.<br><br>{.i je ba bo f=
a'a lo me do moi ku mi sputu .u'u cu'i}<br>And then I spit in your directio=
n with no regret.<br><br>{.i mi gu'u kulnu iu gi kusru prenu}<br>And I am a=
 cultural &lt;3 whether-or-not cruel person.<br><br>{.i ie ke'u ba'e zengau=
 la'e di'u pu'o}<br>Yes, I repeat: going to *increase* that.<br><br>He says=
 {ke'u}, but it was without {pu'o} before. Now it refers to being a cultura=
l person, not to you saying "wow".<br><br>{.i se gu mu curnu cu muvdu tu pu=
 ku mu tubnu}<br>Whether or not five worms moved from there to five pipes,<=
br><br>It's bonkers from now on. I don't understand a thing, only that most=
 words have "u" as the only vowel.<br><br>{gi tu sfubu nu vu ru'u gunro lo =
du be lo du}<br>that was a diving event of far surrounding rolling of the s=
ame thing as the same thing.<br><br>I like {lo du be lo du}.<br><br>{.i mul=
no tu'o ka ju du'u cunso}<br>Complete in null being whether-or-not random.<=
br><br>This I don't understand even more. {tu'o} (null) is used as a quanti=
fier for a property of being whether-or-not random, whatever that means.<br=
><br>{.i mi virnu}<br>I'm brave.<br><br>Back to intelligible things.<br><br=
>{.i ju'o mi cusku zo .u'o}<br>Certainly I say "[courage]".<br><br>Hard to =
translate, but it's clear.<br><br> {.i zu'u nai mi fenki ia pu'o}<br>On the=
 other hand I'm going to go crazy (I believe).<br><br>{.i pu'u na pensi fe =
tu'a lo menli si tu'a lo menli ku lu'u}<br>Process of not thinking --about =
mind-- about mind.<br><br>I'm sure it should be {sa}, not {si}, it wouldn't=
 even parse otherwise. {lu'u} terminates LAhE, here: {tu'a}.<br><br>{.i lo =
mi ro da ku jbodu'e}<br>All of my things are too much Lojbanic,<br><br>{ja'=
e lo su'u lo me mi moi cu nu'o nai nonselsmu se .u}<br>so whether or not my=
 stuff is [not-unrealized potential] nonsense,<br><br>camxes and jbofi'e do=
n't accept {nai} after CAhA. And I don't know what would mean {nu'o nai}. C=
an't but has? Can't or has? And what that would mean in relation to a stati=
c property?<br><br>{lo zu'o gau mi lo munje ku spofu}<br>I destroy the univ=
erse.<br><br>Actually it's more complicated, as I understand, the connectiv=
e is joining sumti here. So it's more like: my things are too Lojbanic, and=
 whether or not the result of that is that my stuff is [???] nonsense, the =
result of that is that I destroy the universe. Connecting sumti with {u} or=
 {o} is weird.<br><br>{.i ca'e spoja}<br>[I define] explodes.<br><br>{ca'e}=
 doesn't really fit here in my opinion, but I don't see anything closer to =
something like "fiat lux" and equally concise.<br><br>mu'o mi'e ianek<br></=
div>

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