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Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 21:23:35 +0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] {se me}
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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or just move {me} to BRIVLA/GOhA whatever you call it.

2014-09-09 21:10 GMT+04:00 Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>:

> coi ro do
>
> I recently discovered that {lo se me ko'a} isn't a valid method for
> creating a description sumti from the special sumti slot introduced by
> {me}. The reason is, {me} being a syntactically irregular predicate, it
> actually has no x2 as such, and {me ko'a} is considered as a unary
> predicate, which results in {lo se me ko'a} being semantically undefined.
>
> The best paraphrases I can think of that do not use experimental cmavo ar=
e
> the following:
> =E2=80=A2 lo ckaji be lo ka ko'a me ce'u (ku)
> =E2=80=A2 zo'e noi ko'a me ke'a (ku'o)
>
> Both of the above are pretty awkward and/or long paraphrases for what
> would have simply been {lo selbri be ko'a} with a regular predicate word.
>
> Therefore I'd like to know if any of you can think of a good way to turn
> the relation {me} "X is/are among (the referents of) Y" into a regular
> predicate word form (brivla).
>
> One possible solution could have been making a lujvo from {me}, but it
> turns out that {me} has no rafsi. As for using {zei} (me zei ckaji or
> whatever), this doesn't look like a very appealing solution for such a
> basic and frequent predicate, as the resulting lexeme would be likely at
> least four syllables long.
>
> Another possibility would be making an experimental gismu or a zi'evla.
> Running la gimyzba on the translations of "among" in the 8~12 largest wor=
ld
> languages gives me {menre} as the best-scoring gismu form that doesn't
> clash with any official gismu. ("menre" mostly comes etymologically from
> the Spanish "entre", the Hindi "mem/men", the English "among" and the
> Russian "sredi".)
>
> Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.
>
> mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">or just move {me} to BRIVLA/GOhA whatever you call it.</di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2014-09-09 21:1=
0 GMT+04:00 Ilmen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ilmen.pokebip@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex">coi ro do<br>
<br>
I recently discovered that {lo se me ko&#39;a} isn&#39;t a valid method for=
 creating a description sumti from the special sumti slot introduced by {me=
}. The reason is, {me} being a syntactically irregular predicate, it actual=
ly has no x2 as such, and {me ko&#39;a} is considered as a unary predicate,=
 which results in {lo se me ko&#39;a} being semantically undefined.<br>
<br>
The best paraphrases I can think of that do not use experimental cmavo are =
the following:<br>
=E2=80=A2 lo ckaji be lo ka ko&#39;a me ce&#39;u (ku)<br>
=E2=80=A2 zo&#39;e noi ko&#39;a me ke&#39;a (ku&#39;o)<br>
<br>
Both of the above are pretty awkward and/or long paraphrases for what would=
 have simply been {lo selbri be ko&#39;a} with a regular predicate word.<br=
>
<br>
Therefore I&#39;d like to know if any of you can think of a good way to tur=
n the relation {me} &quot;X is/are among (the referents of) Y&quot; into a =
regular predicate word form (brivla).<br>
<br>
One possible solution could have been making a lujvo from {me}, but it turn=
s out that {me} has no rafsi. As for using {zei} (me zei ckaji or whatever)=
, this doesn&#39;t look like a very appealing solution for such a basic and=
 frequent predicate, as the resulting lexeme would be likely at least four =
syllables long.<br>
<br>
Another possibility would be making an experimental gismu or a zi&#39;evla.=
 Running la gimyzba on the translations of &quot;among&quot; in the 8~12 la=
rgest world languages gives me {menre} as the best-scoring gismu form that =
doesn&#39;t clash with any official gismu. (&quot;menre&quot; mostly comes =
etymologically from the Spanish &quot;entre&quot;, the Hindi &quot;mem/men&=
quot;, the English &quot;among&quot; and the Russian &quot;sredi&quot;.)<br=
>
<br>
Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.<br>
<br>
mi&#39;e la .ilmen. mu&#39;o<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">=
<br>
<br>
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</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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