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Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:07:37 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] the future of Lojban's leadership
From: Frank <frankdmartinez@gmail.com>
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I have no strong feelings on the matter one way or another. Bluntly,
Whoever is in charge, if They do a bad job, it's easy (though
unfortunate) for Us to split. At the same time, from what I have read as a
Lojban-Lurker over the years, I highly doubt circumstances would ever come
anywhere near that point.

mi'e xuinkrbin.

On Thursday, May 15, 2014, Alex Burka <durka42@gmail.com> wrote:

>  coi lo jbopre
>
> My name is Dustin and you might know me as ldlework or mokau or cadgu'a.
>  I'm
> writing to announce the current motion to nominate selpa'i as the current
> warden
> for the language in a provisionally official capacity contingent on the
> general
> attitudes professed by the community's response to the motion. selpa'i
> would be
> replacing Robin Lee Powell in this position.
>
> Currently, the IRC and Facebook communities have been approached. The
> response so
> far has been extremely positive with a current count of 20 to 1 in favor
> of the
> motion. Broca of the BPFK has given his provisional support of the motion
> and Ali
> Sajid Imami of the LLG has given positive approval.
>
> Robin Lee Powell has declared that he will abstain from voting explicitly,
> citing
> personal reasons but has offered the following words (edited for clarity):
>
> rlpowell:   I confirm [that] I'd [just] as soon someone else took my
> Lojbanic authority.
> rlpowell:   I'm ever so slightly mildly skeptical about selpa'i
> specifically because
>             he's not well known throughout the community the way I was.
> rlpowell: I'm mildly worried that his lack of presence there will lead to
> schism or something.
> rlpowell: Having said that, I certainly don't know of anybody *better*
> suited for the job.
> rlpowell: and I, personally, like him and his attitude towards Lojban.
>
>
> So what will this actually mean for the community and the language?
>
> As it stands Lojban is a vibrant community of speakers of a wide range of
> fluency.
> At the tail end, some extremely active and hard-working jbopre have, over
> the
> years, contributed many efforts to the language such as translations,
> music but
> also proposals of enhancements or refinements of various aspects of the
> language
> including its grammar, cmavo and general lexicon. However without an active
> leadership many of these modifications remain in conversational limbo
> where they
> are discussed for years in vain since there is no explicit mechanism for
> integration into the language or lexicon. New speakers get confused at the
> apparent lack of consensus.
>
> selpa'i would be the figurehead for the re-activation of this explicit
> mechanism for
> integration. If you are familiar with software development, this
> responsibility is
> synonymous with that of a repository maintainer. In that sense, he will
> have the
> authority to merge pull requests back into the repository thereby making
> the change
> "official". The authority to perform the "last-step" approval or
> disapproval of any
> of the number of outstanding or future proposals that may take place is
> what allows
> the language to continue to evolve and adapt to the creativity and usage
> of its
> userbase.
>
> I ask that everyone refrain from accusations of dictatorship and other
> similarly
> colored arguments. Lojban has always had an acting leadership for all of
> the
> utilities mentioned above. The motion should not in anyway be interpreted
> that
> selpa'i is solely responsible for engineering proposals and that all our
> own
> responsibilities to partake in the creative process have been revoked. On
> the
> contrary, with an actually active leadership we hope that the motion will
> encourage
> those who tend to think very deeply about the nuance of Lojban's various
> systems to
> feel more confident that they have a venue through which their ideas may
> actually
> one day be realized.
>
> Furthermore, if selpa'i is indeed found to be an acceptable leader for our
> lovely
> language a major effort will be made to "open source" the language. We
> have a PEG
> grammar, reference material, and a lexicon all of which are data that can
> be
> managed with principles and procedures that more resemble the management
> of a
> software development. The intention is to make the entire process
> extremely more
> visible and open with actual mechanisms for structured review and
> integration just
> like in the software world. I hope it is readily apparent how this could
> be an
> incredible boon for the direct democracy that so many desire.
>
> Lastly, I will speak a bit about selpa'i himself. As I have known him, he
> has
> demonstrated a prowess of the language that I have yet to see matched in a
> demonstrated way. His deep familiarity with not only the various
> grammatical
> systems but their nuance, their great qualities and their systemic
> inefficiencies
> is really inspiring. As one of the most active jbopre, he continuously
> emits
> high-quality literary translations, and even music. He is an active Lojban
> teacher with a number of current students that he lectures and gives formal
> training to. The guy can *rap* in Lojban :) I invite you to read his
> active blog
> which is where most of his published thinking on Lojban resides:
> http://selpahi.weebly.com/ *
> and also many of his Lojban writings are available at:
> http://selpahi.de/
>
> * NB: The blog posts are proposals only! I think they show a depth of
> thinking
> about the language. But the intended work is completely community-driven
> and
> no-one intends to implement proposals without wide support.
>
> Here is a current log of everyone who has given a direct response to the
> motion
> (which will be updated as the motion is on-going):
>
> https://gist.github.com/durka/cdf733d1ec95333fb9e7
>
> Here is log of the discussion that has taken place on facebook as of this
> writing: https://gist.github.com/dustinlacewell/115350f17f09efc9aa3f
>
> Please, use this thread to voice your approval or disapproval for this
> motion. If
> you disapprove it is enough to say so and give a bit of reasoning behind
> why you
> think so. Long digressions will make it difficult to ascertain an accurate
> distilling of everyone's approval or disapproval. Nays will be counted
> regardless
> of their length! :)
>
> Thank you for reading! If you'd like to participate in a more real-time
> discourse,
> I highly encourage you to visit #lojban on Freenode IRC. If you're
> unfamiliar with that, you can use http://webchat.freenode.net/ to join.
>
> .i finti fa la'o gy Dustin Lacewell gy no'u la'o irci ldlework irci no'u
> la mokau
> .i cusku'i fa la'o gy Alex Burka gy no'u la'o irci durka42 irci
> .i mu'o
>
>   --
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>


-- 
P.S.: I prefer to be reached on BitMessage at
BM-2D8txNiU7b84d2tgqvJQdgBog6A69oDAx6

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--089e013a23e4a3af2a0502bd47db
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have no strong feelings on the matter one way or another. Bluntly, Whoeve=
r is in charge, if They do a bad job, it&#39;s easy (though unfortunate)=A0=
for Us to split. At the same time, from what I have read as a Lojban-Lurker=
 over the years, I highly doubt circumstances would ever come anywhere near=
 that point.<div><br></div><div>mi&#39;e xuinkrbin.<span></span><br><br>On =
Thursday, May 15, 2014, Alex Burka &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:durka42@gmail.com"=
>durka42@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <div>
                    <div>coi lo jbopre</div><div><br></div><div>My name is =
Dustin and you might know me as ldlework or mokau or cadgu&#39;a. =A0I&#39;=
m</div><div>writing to announce the current motion to nominate selpa&#39;i =
as the current warden</div><div>for the language in a provisionally officia=
l capacity contingent on the general</div><div>attitudes professed by the c=
ommunity&#39;s response to the motion. selpa&#39;i would be</div><div>repla=
cing Robin Lee Powell in this position.</div><div><br></div><div>Currently,=
 the IRC and Facebook communities have been approached. The response so</di=
v><div>far has been extremely positive with a current count of 20 to 1 in f=
avor of the</div><div>motion. Broca of the BPFK has given his provisional s=
upport of the motion and Ali</div><div>Sajid Imami of the LLG has given pos=
itive approval.</div><div><br></div><div>Robin Lee Powell has declared that=
 he will abstain from voting explicitly, citing</div><div>personal reasons =
but has offered the following words (edited for clarity):</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>rlpowell: =A0 I confirm [that] I&#39;d [just] as soon someone else =
took my Lojbanic authority.</div><div>rlpowell: =A0 I&#39;m ever so slightl=
y mildly skeptical about selpa&#39;i specifically because</div><div>=A0 =A0=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 he&#39;s not well known throughout the community the way I=
 was.</div><div>rlpowell:<span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">	</span>I&#39=
;m mildly worried that his lack of presence there will lead to schism or so=
mething.</div><div>rlpowell:<span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">	</span>Ha=
ving said that, I certainly don&#39;t know of anybody *better* suited for t=
he job.</div><div>rlpowell:<span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">	</span>and=
 I, personally, like him and his attitude towards Lojban.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div><br></div><div>So what will this actually mean for the community an=
d the language?</div><div><br></div><div>As it stands Lojban is a vibrant c=
ommunity of speakers of a wide range of fluency.</div><div>At the tail end,=
 some extremely active and hard-working jbopre have, over the</div><div>yea=
rs, contributed many efforts to the language such as translations, music bu=
t</div><div>also proposals of enhancements or refinements of various aspect=
s of the language</div><div>including its grammar, cmavo and general lexico=
n. However without an active</div><div>leadership many of these modificatio=
ns remain in conversational limbo where they</div><div>are discussed for ye=
ars in vain since there is no explicit mechanism for</div><div>integration =
into the language or lexicon. New speakers get confused at the</div><div>ap=
parent lack of consensus.</div><div><br></div><div>selpa&#39;i would be the=
 figurehead for the re-activation of this explicit mechanism for</div><div>=
integration. If you are familiar with software development, this responsibi=
lity is</div><div>synonymous with that of a repository maintainer. In that =
sense, he will have the</div><div>authority to merge pull requests back int=
o the repository thereby making the change</div><div>&quot;official&quot;. =
The authority to perform the &quot;last-step&quot; approval or disapproval =
of any</div><div>of the number of outstanding or future proposals that may =
take place is what allows</div><div>the language to continue to evolve and =
adapt to the creativity and usage of its</div><div>userbase.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>I ask that everyone refrain from accusations of dictatorship and=
 other similarly</div><div>colored arguments. Lojban has always had an acti=
ng leadership for all of the</div><div>utilities mentioned above. The motio=
n should not in anyway be interpreted that</div><div>selpa&#39;i is solely =
responsible for engineering proposals and that all our own</div><div>respon=
sibilities to partake in the creative process have been revoked. On the</di=
v><div>contrary, with an actually active leadership we hope that the motion=
 will encourage</div><div>those who tend to think very deeply about the nua=
nce of Lojban&#39;s various systems to</div><div>feel more confident that t=
hey have a venue through which their ideas may actually</div><div>one day b=
e realized.</div><div><br></div><div>Furthermore, if selpa&#39;i is indeed =
found to be an acceptable leader for our lovely</div><div>language a major =
effort will be made to &quot;open source&quot; the language. We have a PEG<=
/div><div>grammar, reference material, and a lexicon all of which are data =
that can be</div><div>managed with principles and procedures that more rese=
mble the management of a</div><div>software development. The intention is t=
o make the entire process extremely more</div><div>visible and open with ac=
tual mechanisms for structured review and integration just</div><div>like i=
n the software world. I hope it is readily apparent how this could be an</d=
iv><div>incredible boon for the direct democracy that so many desire.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>Lastly, I will speak a bit about selpa&#39;i himself. A=
s I have known him, he has</div><div>demonstrated a prowess of the language=
 that I have yet to see matched in a</div><div>demonstrated way. His deep f=
amiliarity with not only the various grammatical</div><div>systems but thei=
r nuance, their great qualities and their systemic inefficiencies</div><div=
>is really inspiring. As one of the most active jbopre, he continuously emi=
ts</div><div>high-quality literary translations, and even music. He is an a=
ctive Lojban</div><div>teacher with a number of current students that he le=
ctures and gives formal</div><div>training to. The guy can *rap* in Lojban =
:) I invite you to read his active blog</div><div>which is where most of hi=
s published thinking on Lojban resides:</div><div><a href=3D"http://selpahi=
.weebly.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://selpahi.weebly.com/</a> *</div><div>=
and also many of his Lojban writings are available at:</div><div><a href=3D=
"http://selpahi.de/" target=3D"_blank">http://selpahi.de/</a></div><div><br=
></div><div>* NB: The blog posts are proposals only! I think they show a de=
pth of thinking</div><div>about the=A0language. But the intended work is co=
mpletely community-driven and</div><div>no-one intends to implement proposa=
ls=A0without wide support.</div><div><br></div><div>Here is a current log o=
f everyone who has given a direct response to the motion</div><div>(which w=
ill be updated as the motion is on-going):</div><div><br></div><div><a href=
=3D"https://gist.github.com/durka/cdf733d1ec95333fb9e7" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://gist.github.com/durka/cdf733d1ec95333fb9e7</a></div><div><br></div><=
div>Here is log of the discussion that has taken place on facebook as of th=
is</div><div>writing: <a href=3D"https://gist.github.com/dustinlacewell/115=
350f17f09efc9aa3f" target=3D"_blank">https://gist.github.com/dustinlacewell=
/115350f17f09efc9aa3f</a></div><div><br></div><div>Please, use this thread =
to voice your approval or disapproval for this motion. If</div><div>you dis=
approve it is enough to say so and give a bit of reasoning behind why you</=
div><div>think so. Long digressions will make it difficult to ascertain an =
accurate</div><div>distilling of everyone&#39;s approval or disapproval. Na=
ys will be counted regardless</div><div>of their length! :)</div><div><br><=
/div><div>Thank you for reading! If you&#39;d like to participate in a more=
 real-time discourse,</div><div>I highly encourage you to visit #lojban on =
Freenode IRC. If you&#39;re</div><div>unfamiliar with that, you can use <a =
href=3D"http://webchat.freenode.net/" target=3D"_blank">http://webchat.free=
node.net/</a> to join.</div><div><br></div><div>.i finti fa la&#39;o gy Dus=
tin Lacewell gy no&#39;u la&#39;o irci ldlework irci no&#39;u la mokau</div=
><div>.i cusku&#39;i fa la&#39;o gy Alex Burka gy no&#39;u la&#39;o irci du=
rka42 irci</div><div>.i mu&#39;o</div><div><br></div>
                </div>
                <div></div>
           =20

<p></p>

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</blockquote></div><br><br>-- <br>P.S.: I prefer to be reached on BitMessag=
e at BM-2D8txNiU7b84d2tgqvJQdgBog6A69oDAx6<br>

<p></p>

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