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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:06:47 -0400
From: "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" <lojbab@lojban.org>
Organization: The Logical Language Group, Inc.
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Subject: Re: [lojban] the future of Lojban's leadership
References: <25B055499F67420FA34794323F9A95AB@gmail.com> <540B374A.9040409@lojban.org> <CAO7bV+gQQtt4qtnrj6LUWpj5rv5Qpkoy3GaKsg+CewG3-Mw+OA@mail.gmail.com> <CAMDmBpHS_h8ui41oZnKO4kt13KdVCodTa+crWzo3E9hyyBummg@mail.gmail.com> <540B8D1B.8050807@gmail.com> <540F391F.5050002@lojban.org> <336d2f55-fba7-46d5-8a8a-332e0dd24f39@googlegroups.com> <CAMDmBpEwhMWSBPYx088g218xhSaAQq+k8utESSiiZLgVMdm_UQ@mail.gmail.com> <prp81o01c56Cr6M01rpAZ7>
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On 9/11/2014 11:48 AM, TR NS wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 7:20:54 PM UTC-4, Dustin Lacewell wrote:
>
>     TR NS,
>
>     This is the unifying reason the FAR MAJORITY of conlangs die! Accept
>     this at face value!
>
>
> I'd be concerned that a language that did not achieve its stated goals
> might also suffer the same fate. Regardless I will take it at face
> value, and conclude Lojban has reached a type of impasse, perhaps
> inevitable.
>
> Clearly there are two camps of thought: There are those, like yourself,
> who wish to see the language frozen, unassailable from all but minor
> adjustments, wanting to get on with *using* the language,

That has been the commitment from the start.

> and see the language's death in any further modification.

Not necessarily death. But certainly prescriptive changes by fiat will 
tend to drive away people, especially if it creates the sense that the 
language community is being incessantly driven by "language tinkerers"

> Then there are those who
> see a language that has not yet reached it's fruition --still in need of
> work, minor or significant, and in seeing those "holes", see a dead
> language in one that is no longer evolving.

The language will certainly evolve regardless.  But if the evolution 
occurs because of how people use the language, it won't kill the 
language.  This is one way in which xorxes has been very smart.  He USED 
the language in the way that he wished when translating Alice in 
Wonderland, and people read it and learned from his model, which was not 
so strongly different from the standard language as to be unreadable.

> There is no reconciliation of these two views. The only solution is a fork.

In history, such forks have generally meant that one or both branches 
fail.  Esperanto is perhaps unique in having survived many attempts to 
change it which became splinter languages.  But Zamenhof's original work 
is still essentially valid and readable, even though (so I am told by 
skilled Esperantists) the usage of modern Esperantists is considerably 
different from Zamenhof's.

Lojban was the dominant survivor of the split with TLI Loglan.  There 
are still a few people who try to use the other language, and their 
community has been more tolerant of endless tweaking than ours is.  But 
I don't think that their community is growing much, whereas I am pretty 
sure that Lojban is growing out of any possible control by LLG, even 
without a finalized CLL.  Otherwise we wouldn't be having this debate 
more than a decade and a half after 1st edition CLL (and CLL sells many 
more copies in a year now than it did a decade ago, which is why we are 
running out).

lojbab

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