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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 18:30:40 -0300
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2fSc1c+bNR3g32qAVokheEF0h29S2=Wo4-7BK2Tfdz2-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] the future of Lojban's leadership
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Robert LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org>
wrote:

> On 9/10/2014 5:57 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote:
>
>>
>> It's very easy: always use "lo", you never have to use any other gadri.
>>
>
> Then "lo" is not veridical, and it does not mean what it used to mean.
> Because sometimes, what I have in mind is NOT what I describe it to be.
> "The blue house" that I have in mind is actually multicolored, with blue
> merely distinguishing it from some other house that isn't as obviously (t=
o
> me) described as "blue"
>

Remember though that "lo blanu zdani" doesn't need to be blue even with
veridical "lo".

If the thing you're describing is not even a house, you can refer to it as
"lo se skicu be mi bei do bei lo ka blanu zdani".

If you find yourself repeating "lo se skicu be mi bei do bei lo ka" too
much, you can always shorten it to "le", but you don't have to. This
doesn't happen much in practice.


    le is not necessarily singular (or plural), but I certainly have
>>     some concept of what events of swimming (that I am fond of) are, and
>>     I am, referring to one or more of such events.
>>
>> With CLL-le you were saying that you like each one of them, right. but
>> the point is that that's not what "I like swimming" means.
>>
>
> I like each act that I am describing to be an event of swimming, which
> acts may or may not actually be acts of swimming, and are almost certainl=
y
> a tiny fraction of all possible events that someone might describe as
> events of swimming.


Fine, but the point was that that's not what "I like swimming" means, not
that it's not true or that it doesn't mean what you wanted to say.

 Perhaps it's even more clear in the negative: compare  "mi na nelci le
>> nu limna" vs "I don't like swimming".
>>
>
> Not more clear for the same reason.  The events are those that I don't
> like but am describing as events of swimming.


With CLL-le, it's at least one of them that you say you don't like. See?
You are in fact using xorlo-le, not CLL-le. Your explanation of what you
mean is what it means with xorlo. Remember that with CLL gadri you are in
fact saying "mi na nelci _ro_ le nu limna", i.e. it's not true that you
like all of them, but you may like some of them.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Robert LeChevalier <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:lojbab@lojban.org" target=3D"_blank">lojbab@lojban.org</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);bor=
der-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">On 9/10/2014 5:57 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=
=ADas wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><br></span><span class=3D"">
It&#39;s very easy: always use &quot;lo&quot;, you never have to use any ot=
her gadri.<br>
</span></blockquote>
<br>
Then &quot;lo&quot; is not veridical, and it does not mean what it used to =
mean. Because sometimes, what I have in mind is NOT what I describe it to b=
e.=C2=A0 &quot;The blue house&quot; that I have in mind is actually multico=
lored, with blue merely distinguishing it from some other house that isn=
9;t as obviously (to me) described as &quot;blue&quot;<br></blockquote><div=
><br></div><div>Remember though that &quot;lo blanu zdani&quot; doesn&#39;t=
 need to be blue even with veridical &quot;lo&quot;.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>If the thing you&#39;re describing is not even a house, you can refer to=
 it as &quot;lo se skicu be mi bei do bei lo ka blanu zdani&quot;.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>If you find yourself repeating &quot;lo se skicu be mi bei=
 do bei lo ka&quot; too much, you can always shorten it to &quot;le&quot;, =
but you don&#39;t have to. This doesn&#39;t happen much in practice.</div><=
div>=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204=
,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-=
color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span clas=
s=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 le is not necessarily singular (or plural), but I certainly h=
ave<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 some concept of what events of swimming (that I am fond of) a=
re, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I am, referring to one or more of such events.<br>
<br></span><span class=3D"">
With CLL-le you were saying that you like each one of them, right. but<br>
the point is that that&#39;s not what &quot;I like swimming&quot; means.<br=
>
</span></blockquote>
<br>
I like each act that I am describing to be an event of swimming, which acts=
 may or may not actually be acts of swimming, and are almost certainly a ti=
ny fraction of all possible events that someone might describe as events of=
 swimming.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Fine, but the point was that tha=
t&#39;s not what &quot;I like swimming&quot; means, not that it&#39;s not t=
rue or that it doesn&#39;t mean what you wanted to say.</div><div><br></div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;=
padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
Perhaps it&#39;s even more clear in the negative: compare=C2=A0 &quot;mi na=
 nelci le<br>
nu limna&quot; vs &quot;I don&#39;t like swimming&quot;.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
Not more clear for the same reason.=C2=A0 The events are those that I don&#=
39;t like but am describing as events of swimming.</blockquote><div><br></d=
iv><div>With CLL-le, it&#39;s at least one of them that you say you don&#39=
;t like. See? You are in fact using xorlo-le, not CLL-le. Your explanation =
of what you mean is what it means with xorlo. Remember that with CLL gadri =
you are in fact saying &quot;mi na nelci _ro_ le nu limna&quot;, i.e. it=
9;s not true that you like all of them, but you may like some of them.=C2=
=A0</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div><=
/div></div></div>

<p></p>

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