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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 17:32:49 +0100
From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Logos Initiative
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Would this be an initiative to complete the Lojban design, much as Lojban i=
tself was an initiative to bring Loglan into a stable and public domain for=
m? Or would it be an initiative to create the best possible loglang? These =
would be completely different initiatives but to each initiative some bits =
of your messageseem to pertain.

If it's an initiative to complete the Lojban design, probably what's requir=
ed is someone to document the completions that xorxes and selpa'i would rec=
ommend -- maybe an informal document for others to check over the recommend=
ations, and then, if one were wanted, a formal CLL-like document. It seems =
a shame to declare a fork, and rename the language, before forking and rena=
ming has been shown to really be necessary.

If it's an initiative to create the best possible loglang, I suggest initia=
ting discussion on the Engelang list (still on Yahoogroups). My views on lo=
glangs, which would be better discussed on Engelang than here, are that an =
obstacle to progress is that nobody has discovered a good enough design, an=
d the solution to this, if one exists at all, is to discuss the problems an=
d slowly turn them over in our minds, as with any not very tractable proble=
m; it's not a problem that can be solved just by people rolling up their sl=
eeves and trying to get stuff done. But the design is modularizable, and so=
me modules, such as the list of keyest predicates, could be worked on separ=
ately. Slightly better documentation of the state of the art, e.g. Xorban, =
would be nice, too.


--And.

TR NS, On 15/09/2014 15:39:
> After reading the Leadership thread and many other old threads on this li=
st, and taking into account my own views on these matters, which appear to =
be shared by a number of others, I have concluded that it is not unreasonab=
le to begin a new logical language project. To this end I have started the =
Logos Initiative and Logla Prime (https://github.com/LogosInitiative/logla)=
.
>
> The intent of this initiative is to use a modern open source development =
model to build a new mainline logical language --in part a reconciliation b=
etween Loglan and Lojban, and via this model manage the evolution of that l=
anguage. This is not something I have started lightly, but rather because I=
 think it important. I think the world needs a strongly evolving constructe=
d and logical language. One that continues to push the boundaries toward gr=
eater perfection in human communication.
>
> I believe this new initiative will be of actual benefit to Lojban and the=
 LLG as it will free the LLG to focus on the promotion of Lojban as a langu=
age of everyday communication rather than worry with the heavy barrage of l=
inguistic "tinkering".
>
> The initiative is, obviously, in its earliest stages. At this point, it n=
eeds the aid of committed and capable persons to chair the supervisory comm=
ittee, expand the website, flesh out bylaws, and to the wider community of =
logical language enthusiasts, to submit proposals. Communication is facilit=
ated via Github issues (https://github.com/LogosInitiative/logla/issues) an=
d the Google Group (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/logla).
>
> I hope this initiative is received in a positive light, even by those tha=
t may feel a bit ruffled by it. In the end, it surely must be a more constr=
uctive approach than continually arguing against changes to Lojban.
>
> .io
> .trans.

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