Received: from mail-ie0-f185.google.com ([209.85.223.185]:41101) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XTc5b-000087-45 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:37:37 -0700 Received: by mail-ie0-f185.google.com with SMTP id tp5sf903550ieb.12 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:37:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=LagAh495PtMZKzc+Z9rMuTGU1DQultt17bAQuEsgXkE=; b=XS9ppU4Ja4sHgwVdGtXgo3Tk2bqtKvG6C+5GhLy8WN3Jbi2dbKvKMlm7cRlj/dK1Vk VIoVsq6vDoSZ06TRLHA2H5XJc/ROropoMH9YA9imwU1FqTGFSh/m6S19KlA1MvuTFwye APrmv7t1DC2okR60ezqaEpxLkeK36V5T+/s2w2DXdmIFOSo/NRz3I5KG0ILeJ92ZT97+ SA2SafmvKoYQntpUYYhaZXLN6+wPaUXeHX0FSKRkydc6RC01mf+srtpBog6VfwqAalFX mQgqqE2lqWPQTgDK97qnRsxCTanyuNlGFWp4qHwoo7tvmoEGTaXtAmdIz62TqbLJZYvs YYxg== X-Received: by 10.182.2.106 with SMTP id 10mr35767obt.11.1410809844708; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:37:24 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.182.213.102 with SMTP id nr6ls642336obc.84.gmail; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:37:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.110.130 with SMTP id ia2mr5854073obb.42.1410809843856; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x22b.google.com (mail-qg0-x22b.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22b]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k7si1178405qcm.2.2014.09.15.12.37.23 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22b as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22b; Received: by mail-qg0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id a108so4601428qge.30 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:37:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.98.196 with SMTP id o62mr32915776qge.0.1410809843760; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.96.50.167 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:37:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <541714B1.9080300@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:37:23 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Logos Initiative From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22b as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113a53d295566405031fc32e X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --001a113a53d295566405031fc32e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you want to keep up with the current state of the documentation, or even help out yourself, all the information I cited is located at http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Sections There is possibly a mirror of that page on the MediaWiki maintained by Gleki, but I don't use it so I could be wrong, nor can I vouch for how up to date it is. On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:22 PM, TR NS wrote: >> >> But how many decades are we to wait for that to happen? >> > > The length of time it will take to complete the documentation of the > baseline is entirely dependent on the number of hours pre annum spent on > doing the work of the documentation. > > >> And can it actually ever be complete? >> > > Yes. It very nearly is. > > As of this writing, the cmavo of selma'o > > BAI1 BAI2 BAI3 BAI4 BAI5 BAI6 FAhA1 FAhA3 FAhA4 FEhE MOhI VA VEhA VIhA > ZEhA ZI ZAhO BY1 BY2 BY* BOI BU FOI LAU TEI BAhE ZEI XI JOI LA LE (except > lo'e & le'e) KOhA7 FAhO NIhO I MAI TUhE TUhU ZOhU LU LOhU LEhU LIhU ZO ZO= I > and Y are fully documented and voted on, > > CUhE PU KI TAhE ROI FIhO FEhU BIhI GAhO MOI ME MEhU KOhA4 KOhA5 and KOhA6 > are currently in the voting stage, > > FAhA2 CAhA PA1 PA2 PA3 PA4 PA5 MEX BIhE FUhA JOhI KUhE MAhO MOhE NAhU NIh= E > NUhA PEhO TEhU VEI VEhO SEI: ti'o VUhU0 VUhU1 VUhU2 VUhU3 VUhU4 A GA GIhA > GUhA GI JA NA NAhE NAI lo'e and le'e KOhA1 BO CO CU KE KEhE KU VAU KOhA2 > KOhA3 GOhA DAhO RAhO SOI UI1realis UI1irrealis BE BEI BEhO FA JAI SE NU1 > NOI GEhU KUhO VUhO GOI and ZIhE have been documented at least minimally > (possibly ready for voting), with > > SEI SEhU TO TOI UI2 UI3 UI3a UI3c UI6 UI3b UI4 UI7 FUhE FUhO UI5 CAI COI > DOI DOhU LAhE LUhU LI LOhO NU KEI KOhA8 SI SA SU ZOI CEhE NUhI NUhU PEhE > and CEI being the few left in dire need of documentation work. > > Beyond the above, all the valsi have been documented excepting lujvo and > fu'ivla which don't need to be for the baseline to be complete. By a > completely rough gut estimate, I'd say that amount to >75% of the languag= e > being finished documented, most of that being approved or in the process = of > approval, and another ~15% of the language being at least partially > documented. > > >> And doesn't the whole notion of "completion" work against the notion of >> change? >> > > No, because we're not talking about completion of the language, i.e. > everything is as good as it can be and no changes can or "need" to occur. > We're talking about completion of the documentation of the language /as i= t > is now/, the thing that would be changed by future proposals. After all, > it's rather difficult to mark changes if you don't know the starting poin= t. > How can one know the =CE=94=C2=B0C required to turn a mass of H2O into ic= e if the > current temperature is unknown? How can one know the distance to Berlin i= f > the current location is unknown? > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a113a53d295566405031fc32e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you want to keep up with the current state of the = documentation, or even help out yourself, all the information I cited is lo= cated at http://www.lo= jban.org/tiki/BPFK+Sections

There is possibly a mirror of = that page on the MediaWiki maintained by Gleki, but I don't use it so I= could be wrong, nor can I vouch for how up to date it is.

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at = 1:31 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:22 PM, TR = NS <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:=C2=A0
But how many decades are= we to wait for that to happen?

The length of time it will take to complete the documentation of th= e baseline is entirely dependent on the number of hours pre annum spent on = doing the work of the documentation.
=C2=A0<= /div>
And can it actually ever be complete?

Yes. It very nearly is.

As of this writin= g, the cmavo of selma'o

BAI1 BAI2 BAI3 BAI4 BAI5 BAI6 FAhA1 FAhA= 3 FAhA4 FEhE MOhI VA VEhA VIhA ZEhA ZI ZAhO BY1 BY2 BY* BOI BU FOI LAU TEI = BAhE ZEI XI JOI LA LE (except lo'e & le'e) KOhA7 FAhO NIhO I MA= I TUhE TUhU ZOhU LU LOhU LEhU LIhU ZO ZOI and Y are fully documented and vo= ted on,

CUhE PU KI TAhE ROI FIhO FEhU BIhI GAhO MOI ME MEhU KOhA4 KO= hA5 and KOhA6 are currently in the voting stage,

FAhA2 CAhA PA1 PA2 = PA3 PA4 PA5 MEX BIhE FUhA JOhI KUhE MAhO MOhE NAhU NIhE NUhA PEhO TEhU VEI = VEhO SEI: ti'o VUhU0 VUhU1 VUhU2 VUhU3 VUhU4 A GA GIhA GUhA GI JA NA NA= hE NAI lo'e and le'e KOhA1 BO CO CU KE KEhE KU VAU KOhA2 KOhA3 GOhA= DAhO RAhO SOI UI1realis UI1irrealis BE BEI BEhO FA JAI SE NU1 NOI GEhU KUh= O VUhO GOI and ZIhE have been documented at least minimally (possibly ready= for voting), with

SEI SEhU TO TOI UI2 UI3 UI3a UI3c UI6 UI3b UI4 UI= 7 FUhE FUhO UI5 CAI COI DOI DOhU LAhE LUhU LI LOhO NU KEI KOhA8 SI SA SU ZO= I CEhE NUhI NUhU PEhE and CEI being the few left in dire need of documentat= ion work.

Beyond the above, all the valsi have been documented excep= ting lujvo and fu'ivla which don't need to be for the baseline to b= e complete. By a completely rough gut estimate, I'd say that amount to = >75% of the language being finished documented, most of that being appro= ved or in the process of approval, and another ~15% of the language being a= t least partially documented.
=C2=A0
And doesn't = the whole notion of "completion" work against the notion of chang= e?

No, because we're not talking about completion of the = language, i.e. everything is as good as it can be and no changes can or &qu= ot;need" to occur. We're talking about completion of the documenta= tion of the language /as it is now/, the thing that would be changed by fut= ure proposals. After all, it's rather difficult to mark changes if you = don't know the starting point. How can one know the =CE=94=C2=B0C requi= red to turn a mass of H2O into ice if the current temperature is unknown? H= ow can one know the distance to Berlin if the current location is unknown?<= br>

--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )



--
mu'o mi'e .aion= ys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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