Received: from mail-wi0-f183.google.com ([209.85.212.183]:53222) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XTmOx-00054r-JD for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:38:12 -0700 Received: by mail-wi0-f183.google.com with SMTP id q5sf251344wiv.20 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:38:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=IGheVTlqMHqgfdAOTJWREHXaIY8WniyVxKao+ASg2Qo=; b=qaa/IgYchZ6VnlvwkYeebyoG9J0KJn2dV4mFJWNzqezf3ExTFU9+GW+V0oYm0+HS7K iOFraOa5754LJOkGyDOYGlAeDufodXwR4dFvUiXLajJozUX8d9oXGflXFytyiBiSyTqV iDXZJ58tJigtnHvGQsqyJRTo0wZ+t9bKc+j31wxUXH/CqIOakzrvXNXOdTGaClzIpBji PHBC/Ob02lUzajm2FyIlGl3/GOUkVJd6Z7QqUWPVRt6Pdp9jc9CK8WYGnDZSxkApoLkL B+7GoULvFzeaYLfctIBdGiPbMTsu2yHojmhSdUIW6YpyFjJKszSWl8/cA7Su8+Uskup5 jmOA== X-Received: by 10.152.28.226 with SMTP id e2mr2847lah.23.1410849484363; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:38:04 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.30.3 with SMTP id o3ls167536lah.14.gmail; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:38:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.152.21.137 with SMTP id v9mr8084596lae.1.1410849483250; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22e.google.com (mail-wi0-x22e.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c05::22e]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gj7si31119wib.3.2014.09.15.23.38.03 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::22e as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::22e; Received: by mail-wi0-f174.google.com with SMTP id n3so5624857wiv.1 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:38:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.200.137 with SMTP id js9mr17371477wjc.90.1410849483118; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.89.193 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:38:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <541714B1.9080300@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 10:38:03 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Logos Initiative From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::22e as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb70c7445df26050328fedf X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --047d7bb70c7445df26050328fedf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Yes, as said earlier 1. backward compatible changes 2. backward incompatible changes are what should be contrasted and dealt with most of the time. New connectives, adding any number of new words is 1. Xorlo is 2. I'm not against 1. ("gismu space is huge" cu'u la .camgusmis.) E.g. fi'o te sidbo la .camgusmis. people reading old texts would wonder what those strange gismu mean and would look them up in the dictionary finding out that those gismu were used long ago meaning this and this. But this situation is quite different from repurposing cmavo and gismu. I'm pretty against such changes that would divert people, would raise (and already raised in past) antagonism. I myself had to make certain changes in my project to find a better compromise between those tinkerers and hardlinerists. Xorlo was an unlucky part of Lojban history where the founders like Lojbab didnt see it as a change invalidating CLL, and the others didnt bother of amending books and the dictionary. 2014-09-16 10:24 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones : > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Gleki Arxokuna < > gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Again additions, not core-changing proposals. >> > > From a purely semantic standpoint, an addition /is/ a change. > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7bb70c7445df26050328fedf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, as said earlier
1. backward compatible changes
2.=C2=A0backward incompatible changes
are what should be = contrasted and dealt with most of the time.


New connectives, adding any number of new words is 1.
Xo= rlo is 2.


I'm not against 1. (&= quot;gismu space is huge" cu'u la .camgusmis.)
E.g. = fi'o te sidbo la .camgusmis. people reading old texts would wonder what= those strange gismu mean and would look them up in the dictionary finding = out that those gismu were used long ago meaning this and this.
But this situation is quite different from repurposing cmavo a= nd gismu.
I'm pretty against such changes that would divert p= eople, would raise (and already raised in past) antagonism. I myself had to= make certain changes in my project to find a better compromise between tho= se tinkerers and hardlinerists.

Xorlo was an unluc= ky part of Lojban history where the founders like Lojbab didnt see it as a = change invalidating CLL, and the others didnt bother of amending books and = the dictionary.



2014-09-16 10:24 GMT+04:00 Jonathan= Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>:
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
Again additions, not core-changing propo= sals.

From a purely semantic standpoint, an addition /is/ a chan= ge.

= --
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be= denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, = I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--047d7bb70c7445df26050328fedf--