Received: from mail-qc0-f192.google.com ([209.85.216.192]:34755) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XUjDF-00087X-Mp for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:26:02 -0700 Received: by mail-qc0-f192.google.com with SMTP id m20sf302032qcx.29 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:25:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=references:message-id:date:from:reply-to:subject:to:in-reply-to :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=JoyzhWFmkFngrRBFbg1AfqFpedQcD+l9LI4BWlfS32Y=; b=PcEydkSyQBl7R+GCeSn1TmTkppmb2Ek0WqbIe9J6qn17GDiyZ8WHjhRN61UWaDptMB dritQ/p1oxAxRWBsJ1W0KCAfFctEklJwlMAyBCbNpL2FCpFR10O9X2U1PtAwJKi+St/C wHbe6sZxV+pP0iHiWO1TiB06Ivj0TRMECrkt5glehnix/YiqHeRfWmua0s8c6IYUlsa4 OcW82Um6lCpvu6m/85iiH2tKRk1fRHve+z/JLRZyjQ2KyYiIpSCCqsDHek9JBZxqcrgY KkB8N9c9/D78K8QaUgrmXX0lEhx1Go2mNLV5EqfS0gXpX+rusDoiKr+CNq2iRt1FoZmZ dErw== X-Received: by 10.140.19.2 with SMTP id 2mr11279qgg.35.1411075555044; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:25:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.40.49 with SMTP id w46ls292685qgw.95.gmail; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:25:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.52.30.104 with SMTP id r8mr6242488vdh.7.1411075554665; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm6-vm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm6-vm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com. [216.39.63.124]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ss9si2913pab.1.2014.09.18.14.25.54 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.39.63.124 as permitted sender) client-ip=216.39.63.124; Received: from [216.39.60.166] by nm6.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Sep 2014 21:25:54 -0000 Received: from [216.39.60.250] by tm2.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Sep 2014 21:25:54 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1021.access.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Sep 2014 21:25:54 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 356113.14981.bm@omp1021.access.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 10180 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Sep 2014 21:25:53 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: _MAcbvgVM1k_MYYZQ2sbRg7.LEIdma9gtEQyJfo8icVQp_M TgAKMgDFHo9GCVMuZ2_5NiOIoBe5hOxOrsTK5pNEVgD00CE3yFsko6KtIVaF 4T32iJeMp3sC.mh._eTmv9IlA4GNGqlfxLeIjVeoTuQNBOm0LWRlH30M8zJV WbMwkQR5NihaIoGxQdcVjqFVLHrdfWZAwf4LztmUd0WOSBXLLDJBY2gB5DQ8 8bGhLQhH.m_X4XqkmOLxq_D5597n7A_bEeLGS8loEN9G1vMXync2r.iqxAyC P.Wq5a1ZGlxnSzTlfV9jUXGFI9xdxAWwOflABGeyg3kF4EbeNfZkhP7oKaSg DzxoVemIZNSCwaNjXHseYsKknMrfgeu9IynToej5HCy3A4yYDH.CT1tVYNGU Ak9JH2dlzjnh6tG3pb0R0VK1iNwiMpBDWnQz7Pm_wEEyk0A2mshcltPYE4Gq NQWtE3ynVvdGp0p9bE1dHwcvcX2fpa8Dbc9PRKjGYNllZEsbD7v9vpOMatg9 Jcl_SNS.cLPzK8b43Q8umHSq1yJXGFcd6o28r3O1KprLIP2JFcGlFH9E3wo1 ib2E4dP4YjrN2z89I8A4pPN50A.4ElHOM0wo5IxF._V4LUY82rISZ9i3itpa sXAskgCizXhhfTxBNHT_4jFVRNNvLitI1RTC.sOQ0jvmGrJ8gGPVwl4vqeyX GPuCBArNbr0hnsUSGIjZC2.NfnbYfkLBP_XQmOkzNwgs- Received: from [99.92.109.82] by web181106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:25:53 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,VGhhbmtzLCBqYm92bGFzdGUgZXRjLiBsYWNrIHRoZXNlIHNvcnRzIG9mIGNsZWFyIGNvbnRyYXN0aW5nIGV4YW1wbGVzLgoKCgpPbiBUaHVyc2RheSwgU2VwdGVtYmVyIDE4LCAyMDE0IDM6NDUgUE0sIEpvcmdlIExsYW1iw61hcyA8ampsbGFtYmlhc0BnbWFpbC5jb20.IHdyb3RlOgogCgoKCgoKCk9uIFRodSwgU2VwIDE4LCAyMDE0IGF0IDQ6MjAgUE0sICdKb2huIEUgQ2xpZmZvcmQnIHZpYSBsb2piYW4gPGxvamJhbkBnb29nbGVncm91cHMuY29tPiB3cm90ZToKCgo.IEFnYWluLCBJIGRvbid0IHF1aXRlIGcBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.203.696 References: <5415B8C0.4030003@gmx.de> <5416B55B.9030302@gmx.de> <1410795457.2611.YahooMailNeo@web181106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1411068025.36488.YahooMailNeo@web181104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1411075553.22594.YahooMailNeo@web181106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:25:53 -0700 From: "'John E Clifford' via lojban" Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] The White Knight (Through the Looking Glass) To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.39.63.124 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass header.i=@yahoo.com; dmarc=pass (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=yahoo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Original-From: John E Clifford Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-910415156-771705758-1411075553=:22594" X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - ---910415156-771705758-1411075553=:22594 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, jbovlaste etc. lack these sorts of clear contrasting examples. On Thursday, September 18, 2014 3:45 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: =20 On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 4:20 PM, 'John E Clifford' via lojban wrote: > Again, I don't quite get it (not sure just how {fau} works for starters) = , but {noi simlu lo ka milxe se fanza} works, too. "fau" introduces a concomitant event, we use it to translate adverbial part= iciples. "noi" is not as good for this. Consider for example:=20 lo gerku noi pu ze'a kelci lo bolci cu jersi lo karce fau lo nu gy cmoni. "The dog, which had been playing with the ball, chased the car barking." "Had been playing with the ball" is a comment about the dog, it has nothing= to do with the chasing. "Barking" doesn't just describe the dog, it descri= bes how the dog chased the car. mu'o mi'e xorxes =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ---910415156-771705758-1411075553=:22594 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, jbovlaste etc. lack these sorts of clear contras= ting examples.



On Thursday, = September 18, 2014 3:45 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com> w= rote:




On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 4:20 PM, 'John E Clifford' via lojban <lojban@googlegroups.= com> wrote:

> Again, I don't quite get it (not sur= e just how {fau} works for starters) , but {noi simlu lo ka milxe se fanza}= works, too.

"fau" introduces a concomitant event, we use it to tra= nslate adverbial participles. "noi" is not as good for this. Consider for e= xample: 

lo gerku noi pu ze'a kelci= lo bolci cu jersi lo karce fau lo nu gy cmoni.
"The dog, which had been playing with the ball, chased th= e car barking."

"Had been playing with the ball" is a comment abo= ut the dog, it has nothing to do with the chasing. "Barking" doesn't just d= escribe the dog, it describes how the dog chased the car.

mu'o mi'e xorxes
 
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group= /lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/o= ptout.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
---910415156-771705758-1411075553=:22594--