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From: Stela Selckiku <selckiku@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 23:54:47 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Growth and decline in lojbanistan
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On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 8:49 PM, mukti <shunpiker@gmail.com> wrote:

It looks to me like the adoption of the baseline policy 2002 -- and the
> consequent failure of BPFK to fullfill its expectations despite heroic
> efforts by both chairs -- is where the wheels came off the bus. Which is
> why I would like to bring proposals to the Annual Meeting to determine
> whether specific terms of the baseline policy are still aligned with the
> values and the experience of the community, or whether there's another way
> forward.
>
> I'd be interested to hear from those who were around throughout the 2000s:
> What, from your perspective, happened? And what lessons can be drawn for
> the future?
>
>

Intuitively I feel that the political efforts were driven by the energy
then rather than the other way around, but I can't think of any particular
evidence that that's the causation.

It is difficult to tell exactly how much activity there is as it's shifted
around to various websites. But that does indicate that it's been growing
quite a lot over the years, because back in the day there wasn't nearly
enough activity to spread around to various fora. I remember it was quite
controversial when activity spread even to IRC from just being entirely on
the mailing list. It seems to me that activity's mostly increased by adding
fora rather than by increasing the activity on existing ones. For instance
during one upswing we posted a bunch to jbotcan rather than changing the
list culture to allow posting silly pictures.

The largest change I remember thinking back on it isn't even the amount of
activity generally, it's specifically the amount of spoken Lojban. There
were some thoughts contributed in Lojban in this thread, and that's quite
usual now. Anywhere Lojbanic you're likely to see people making complicated
subtle points in Lojban itself about various topics. When I first joined
the Lojban community there was lots of activity about Lojban, but it was
mostly activity discouraging people from speaking it (or at least from
speaking it any particular way because to someone they were each wrong).

(What follows is some further thoughts in Lojban, not a translation.)

cinri cedra za'a ru'e .i mi nelci lo nu lo ninjbopre cu xamgu pilno .i so'i
cinri cu larcu .i ca lo nu mi jbotadni ku mo'a jbolarcu cu zasti .i manku
pe'a cedra .i ca lo ca cedra lo ca jbopre ca jundi lo so'i mei jbolarcu
gi'e pensi lo du'u xu kau banzu .i ca lo nu mi cilre kei ku doi cnino do'u
lo jbopre pu djica se'o lo nu lo jbolarcu cu zasti kei lo nu zdile .i zabna
funca do

mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 8:49 PM, mukti <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:shunpiker@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">shunpiker@gmail.com</a>&gt;<=
/span> wrote:<br><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">It loo=
ks to me like the adoption of the baseline policy 2002 -- and the consequen=
t failure of BPFK to fullfill its expectations despite heroic efforts by bo=
th chairs -- is where the wheels came off the bus. Which is why I would lik=
e to bring proposals to the Annual Meeting to determine whether specific te=
rms of the baseline policy are still aligned with the values and the experi=
ence of the community, or whether there&#39;s another way forward.
<p>I&#39;d be interested to hear from those who were around throughout the =
2000s: What, from your perspective, happened? And what lessons can be drawn=
 for the future?</p><br></div></blockquote><div><br><br></div><div>Intuitiv=
ely I feel that the political efforts were driven by the energy then rather=
 than the other way around, but I can&#39;t think of any particular evidenc=
e that that&#39;s the causation. <br><br></div><div>It is difficult to tell=
 exactly how much activity there is as it&#39;s shifted around to various w=
ebsites. But that does indicate that it&#39;s been growing quite a lot over=
 the years, because back in the day there wasn&#39;t nearly enough activity=
 to spread around to various fora. I remember it was quite controversial wh=
en activity spread even to IRC from just being entirely on the mailing list=
. It seems to me that activity&#39;s mostly increased by adding fora rather=
 than by increasing the activity on existing ones. For instance during one =
upswing we posted a bunch to jbotcan rather than changing the list culture =
to allow posting silly pictures. <br><br></div><div>The largest change I re=
member thinking back on it isn&#39;t even the amount of activity generally,=
 it&#39;s specifically the amount of spoken Lojban. There were some thought=
s contributed in Lojban in this thread, and that&#39;s quite usual now. Any=
where Lojbanic you&#39;re likely to see people making complicated subtle po=
ints in Lojban itself about various topics. When I first joined the Lojban =
community there was lots of activity about Lojban, but it was mostly activi=
ty discouraging people from speaking it (or at least from speaking it any p=
articular way because to someone they were each wrong). <br><br></div><div>=
(What follows is some further thoughts in Lojban, not a translation.)<br><b=
r></div><div>cinri cedra za&#39;a ru&#39;e .i mi nelci lo nu lo ninjbopre c=
u xamgu pilno .i so&#39;i cinri cu larcu .i ca lo nu mi jbotadni ku mo&#39;=
a jbolarcu cu zasti .i manku pe&#39;a cedra .i ca lo ca cedra lo ca jbopre =
ca jundi lo so&#39;i mei jbolarcu gi&#39;e pensi lo du&#39;u xu kau banzu .=
i ca lo nu mi cilre kei ku doi cnino do&#39;u lo jbopre pu djica se&#39;o l=
o nu lo jbolarcu cu zasti kei lo nu zdile .i zabna funca do<br><br>mi&#39;e=
 la stela selckiku mu&#39;o <br><br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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