Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::22d as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c03::22d;
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20140920203136.7bb8ab2c@aol.com>
References: <20140920203136.7bb8ab2c@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 16:10:25 -0300
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2exspuaAdp31bMnEqiGiGcbOJR0EPBpkCgsTrDEfdmwZg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] The important distinction between "cmene" and "cmevla"
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3783e505f0b050383f80d

--001a11c3783e505f0b050383f80d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 3:31 PM, 'Wuzzy' via lojban <lojban@googlegroups.co=
m
> wrote:

>
> When the CLL talks about a =E2=80=9Ccmene=E2=80=9D is means actually a =
=E2=80=9Ccmevla=E2=80=9D in most
> of the cases. I think the reason why the CLL calls it =E2=80=9Ccmene=E2=
=80=9D anyways
> is simply that the word =E2=80=9Ccmevla=E2=80=9D didn=E2=80=99t exist whe=
n the CLL was written
> and the authors were not really aware of the distinction.


Not quite the reason. See for example this thread from 1993 (four years
before publication of CLL).

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/lojban/cmevla/lojban/yl7n3TjSwR4=
/WlC2H11TcKMJ

John Cowan:
> I believe that the rest of your remarks evince a fundamental confusion,
> which is perhaps not sufficiently clarified in our materials, between
> names as an argument-class and names as a word-class.  The word-class
called
> "cmene" or "names" need no identifying flag; they are self-identifying
> because they end with a consonant+pause, which is not possible for any
> other word of the language.  It would be more correct to call them
> "cmene valsi", or "name-words".  Although restricted grammatically,
> name-words can be preceded by quite a few other words besides "la".

And:
> OK, so I was talking not about cmevla as such but about cmene in general,
> including _la gismu_ & _laho la. xxxxooo la._

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--001a11c3783e505f0b050383f80d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 3:31 PM, &#39;Wuzzy&#39; via lojban <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">l=
ojban@googlegroups.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-=
color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
When the CLL talks about a =E2=80=9Ccmene=E2=80=9D is means actually a =E2=
=80=9Ccmevla=E2=80=9D in most<br>
of the cases. I think the reason why the CLL calls it =E2=80=9Ccmene=E2=80=
=9D anyways<br>
is simply that the word =E2=80=9Ccmevla=E2=80=9D didn=E2=80=99t exist when =
the CLL was written<br>
and the authors were not really aware of the distinction.</blockquote><div>=
<br></div><div>Not quite the reason. See for example this thread from 1993 =
(four years before publication of CLL).</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D=
"https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/lojban/cmevla/lojban/yl7n3TjSwR=
4/WlC2H11TcKMJ">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/lojban/cmevla/lo=
jban/yl7n3TjSwR4/WlC2H11TcKMJ</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>John Cowan:<=
/div><div>&gt; I believe that the rest of your remarks evince a fundamental=
 confusion,<br>&gt; which is perhaps not sufficiently clarified in our mate=
rials, between<br>&gt; names as an argument-class and names as a word-class=
.=C2=A0 The word-class called<br>&gt; &quot;cmene&quot; or &quot;names&quot=
; need no identifying flag; they are self-identifying<br>&gt; because they =
end with a consonant+pause, which is not possible for any<br>&gt; other wor=
d of the language.=C2=A0 It would be more correct to call them<br>&gt; &quo=
t;cmene valsi&quot;, or &quot;name-words&quot;.=C2=A0 Although restricted g=
rammatically,<br>&gt; name-words can be preceded by quite a few other words=
 besides &quot;la&quot;.<br><br>And:</div><div><span style=3D"font-family:A=
rial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">&gt; OK, so I was talking not abo=
ut cmevla as such but about cmene in general,</span></div><div><span style=
=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">&gt; including _=
la gismu_ &amp; _laho la. xxxxooo la._</span></div><div><br></div><div>mu&#=
39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsub=
scribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban">http:=
//groups.google.com/group/lojban</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

--001a11c3783e505f0b050383f80d--