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Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 08:58:29 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Question about Lojbanized Name in Unix/Linux
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 3:37 AM, Alexander Kozhevnikov <alexkoz@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> To be honest I am a complete lojban newb: my understanding was that comma=
s
> were in the more general sense separators of syllables,


That is correct


> where it was not otherwise apparent/proscribed by the language rules that
> that is where the syllable boundary was.


The language doesn't actually officially prescribe where syllable
boundaries are (although it does have some rules about what counts as a
syllable, because syllable count is significant in some cases. The commas
are always optional, and they indicate the writer's preferred syllabie
separations.

no'i So I just play it safe and put commas in to make it clear where the
> syllables start/end. Is any of the aforementioned understanding wrong?
>

Not wrong, but you don't really need to do it.

ni'o Perhaps the issue is in how I think about language/speech? It seemed
> to me fairly intuitive that there is a difference between for example
> "a,lekSANdr" versus "al,ekSANdr". But, thinking about it now, I am
> hardpressed to think of what the phonetic distinction would be between th=
e
> two in casual speech. So am I wrong in thinking that it even makes sense =
to
> think of the two as in any way different?
>

They are not different words in Lojban, just (very slightly) different
permitted pronunciations of the same word. Even the stress in cmevla
doesn't change the word, so "aleks=C3=A1ndr" and "al=C3=A9ksandr" and "=C3=
=A1leksandr" are
all valid pronounciations of the same word. Stress is only important in
brivla.

BTW, a.lek,san,dr and ko,jev,ni,kov are the default syllables with the
camxes morphology, so in your case you are not even showing a non-standard
syllable break.


> P.S. On the subject of my lojbanized name, I am also still hazy on when t=
o
> or not to put starting/terminating periods and when to precede with a 'la=
',
> so my apologies for any omissions or redundancies on that front.


The glottal stop/pause around cmevla (not around names in general, just
around cmevla) is always required. The peiod to represent it in writing is
optional, since as long as you write spaces around the name it can always
be inferred.

You have to use "la" when using the name as a sumti. You may, but don't
need to, when using it as a vocative, in which case you can have a word
from selma'o COI or DOI directly in front of it.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 3:37 AM, Alexander Kozhevnikov <span dir=3D"ltr=
">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alexkoz@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">alexkoz@gmail.=
com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"=
"><br></span>
To be honest I am a complete lojban newb: my understanding was that commas =
were in the more general sense separators of syllables, </blockquote><div><=
br></div><div>That is correct</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex">where it was not otherwise apparent/proscribed by the language rule=
s that that is where the syllable boundary was. </blockquote><div><br></div=
><div>The language doesn&#39;t actually officially prescribe where syllable=
 boundaries are (although it does have some rules about what counts as a sy=
llable, because syllable count is significant in some cases. The commas are=
 always optional, and they indicate the writer&#39;s preferred syllabie sep=
arations.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
no&#39;i So I just play it safe and put commas in to make it clear where th=
e syllables start/end. Is any of the aforementioned understanding wrong?<br=
></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Not wrong, but you don&#39;t really need =
to do it.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
ni&#39;o Perhaps the issue is in how I think about language/speech? It seem=
ed to me fairly intuitive that there is a difference between for example &q=
uot;a,lekSANdr&quot; versus &quot;al,ekSANdr&quot;. But, thinking about it =
now, I am hardpressed to think of what the phonetic distinction would be be=
tween the two in casual speech. So am I wrong in thinking that it even make=
s sense to think of the two as in any way different?<br></blockquote><div><=
br></div><div>They are not different words in Lojban, just (very slightly) =
different permitted pronunciations of the same word. Even the stress in cme=
vla doesn&#39;t change the word, so &quot;aleks=C3=A1ndr&quot; and &quot;al=
=C3=A9ksandr&quot; and &quot;=C3=A1leksandr&quot; are all valid pronounciat=
ions of the same word. Stress is only important in brivla.</div><div><br></=
div><div>BTW, a.lek,san,dr and ko,jev,ni,kov are the default syllables with=
 the camxes morphology, so in your case you are not even showing a non-stan=
dard syllable break.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">P=
.S. On the subject of my lojbanized name, I am also still hazy on when to o=
r not to put starting/terminating periods and when to precede with a &#39;l=
a&#39;, so my apologies for any omissions or redundancies on that front.</b=
lockquote><div><br></div><div>The glottal stop/pause around cmevla (not aro=
und names in general, just around cmevla) is always required. The peiod to =
represent it in writing is optional, since as long as you write spaces arou=
nd the name it can always be inferred. =C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>You =
have to use &quot;la&quot; when using the name as a sumti. You may, but don=
&#39;t need to, when using it as a vocative, in which case you can have a w=
ord from selma&#39;o COI or DOI directly in front of it.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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