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Gleki Arxokuna, On 23/09/2014 13:44:
> 2014-09-23 16:28 GMT+04:00 And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com <mailto:and.ros=
ta@gmail.com>>:
>
>     Gleki Arxokuna, On 16/09/2014 17:57:
>
>              On 9/15/2014 11:14 AM, 'John E Clifford' via lojban wrote:
>                  Personally, though I am perfection-driven, I
>                  have decided that it is a better use of time and talent =
(a lot of the
>                  one, a little of the other) to work with a nearly comple=
ted project in
>                  the hope that it will mange to get completed into a prod=
uct that is good
>                  enough (does all the crucial things, even if in sloppy, =
inefficient,
>                  even ugly, ways).
>
>         Provided both languages have a formal syntax and a clearly define=
d
>         connection between the two dictionaries it won't matter a lot wha=
t
>         language will be spoken since the machine translation will be 100=
%
>         precise under such circumstances.
>
>
>     This is not even remotely true. First of all, the formal syntaxes wou=
ld have to contain logical forms, which a formal syntax indeed should, but =
hardly any do (and Lojban's doesn't).
>
> I dont understand this. Once we know the place structure and the
> syntactic tree in both languages, what can stop us?

I presume you're asking about Lojban specifically? There currently aren't r=
ules that comprehensively map from Lojban sentences' phonological forms to =
logical forms. Besides place structures there are tags, quantifiers, connec=
tives, and so forth. Some rules, such as "left scopes over right", imply a =
syntax at variance from the codified one.

>     Second, the "clearly defined connection" between the dictionaries wou=
ld work only if for each word in the one language there is a word in the ot=
her language that always translates it, and this one-to-one translation is =
explicitly stated.
>
>     The only way this is going to happen is if the two languages are deli=
berately designed to be intertranslatable.
>
> Since this project is/would be based on Loglan and Lojban then it is impl=
ied.

I don't think it is implied.

> english is a tonal language.

It isn't a tone language. Whether tone plays any role at all in English (i.=
e. intonation) is debatable; it's generally held that it does, and I think =
that it probably indeed does, but the evidence is not overwhelming.

> i wonder if there are non tonal languages except lojban.

There are thousands that are as tonal as Lojban is.

--And.

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