Received: from mail-ee0-f63.google.com ([74.125.83.63]:51874) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XWVym-0000B1-8Q for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:42:33 -0700 Received: by mail-ee0-f63.google.com with SMTP id c41sf503712eek.8 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:42:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=jsFXcPywc5u432WpurHTgYASvaZzqcT1pI6XSlI2lfo=; b=Hk4jyNxyQbN0VnEZK+5JO8mbAen9GH7myn9zSVAC3jGm8TP4d7Wb89t0fIqYCikAmu eb2hpqt5QuHMSUvsTg2rTkDq15Qm6ZC50xMzQA07fWJOo1qEF/eG7fut5bZdD02kP5L1 ImGm0TMx0Ow0JW1g9UJlIzXM4BoHhu28Z9bxlyfvrjwfkR1s4GN1yjBg/MTcsZT1q6DL gRDxDMQshqq9hkRn1hLGUSubOrmM5XmP1GlKKHU1pupTaZMRrK/bxc7G3962VLOYauhB XOrNhOaht9M14+gFblVd9OiTdFz9tOx2IDUB3QPY6yFCI7ySdhAp+wmKnLKk4t71s5fG t4pA== X-Received: by 10.152.42.207 with SMTP id q15mr26137lal.25.1411501341257; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:42:21 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.3.6 with SMTP id 6ls85116lay.26.gmail; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:42:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.152.6.9 with SMTP id w9mr34757law.7.1411501340231; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x233.google.com (mail-wi0-x233.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c05::233]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p7si193841wiz.1.2014.09.23.12.42.20 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::233; Received: by mail-wi0-f179.google.com with SMTP id d1so5900354wiv.0 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:42:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.76.37 with SMTP id h5mr5082032wiw.22.1411501340087; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.175.167 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:42:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5BBBFC8F-0363-4B88-A736-8AD0A9B5CB22@yahoo.com> References: <54186B05.1000802@lojban.org> <54216771.9060804@gmail.com> <1411477094.38293.YahooMailNeo@web181101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <5BBBFC8F-0363-4B88-A736-8AD0A9B5CB22@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 23:42:19 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Logos Initiative From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::233 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04343942f9dd760503c0c365 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --f46d04343942f9dd760503c0c365 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Then a wrong term has been used for Toaq Dzu since tones there an in guaspi represent syntactic roles and dont create new words just like in English interrogative intonation ti'e doesnt produce new words. 2014-09-23 22:58 GMT+04:00 'John E. Clifford' via lojban < lojban@googlegroups.com>: > That is, not in the way a tonal language does. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 23, 2014, at 12:13, Gleki Arxokuna > wrote: > > okay, but the initial point was about Toaq Dzu. English uses tones, just > uses them in a different way. > > 2014-09-23 20:42 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Gleki Arxokuna < >> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> 2014-09-23 16:58 GMT+04:00 'John E Clifford' via lojban < >>> lojban@googlegroups.com>: >>> >>>> Losing the thread here. But >>>> English is a tonal language? >>>> >>> >>> yes, say aloud this last phrase and hear the tone. >>> >> >> "Tone is the use of pitch in language to distinguish lexical or >> grammatical meaning =E2=80=93 that is, to distinguish or to inflect word= s.[1] All >> verbal languages use pitch to express emotional and other paralinguistic >> information and to convey emphasis, contrast, and other such features in >> what is called intonation, but not all languages use tones to distinguis= h >> words or their inflections, analogously to consonants and vowels. Langua= ges >> that do have this feature are called tonal languages;" >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_(linguistics) >> >> mu'o mi'e xorxes >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --f46d04343942f9dd760503c0c365 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Then a wrong term has been used for Toaq Dzu since tones t= here an in guaspi represent syntactic roles and dont create new words just = like in English interrogative intonation ti'e doesnt produce new words.=

2014-09-23 = 22:58 GMT+04:00 'John E. Clifford' via lojban <= ;lojban@google= groups.com>:
That is, not in the way a tonal language does.

Sen= t from my iPad

On Sep 23, 2014, at 12:= 13, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

okay, but the initial po= int was about Toaq Dzu. English uses tones, just uses them in a different w= ay.

2014-09-= 23 20:42 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:


On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 1= :12 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>= wrote:

2014-09-23 16:58 GMT+04:00 'John E Cliffo= rd' via lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>:
Losing the thr= ead here.=C2=A0 But=C2=A0
English is a tonal language?

yes, say aloud this last phrase and hear t= he tone.

"To= ne is the use of pitch in language to distinguish lexical or grammatical me= aning =E2=80=93 that is, to distinguish or to inflect words.[1] All verbal = languages use pitch to express emotional and other paralinguistic informati= on and to convey emphasis, contrast, and other such features in what is cal= led intonation, but not all languages use tones to distinguish words or the= ir inflections, analogously to consonants and vowels.=C2=A0Languages that do have this feature are called tonal l= anguages;" =C2=A0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_(linguistics)

mu'o mi'= ;e xorxes


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--f46d04343942f9dd760503c0c365--