Received: from mail-ee0-f62.google.com ([74.125.83.62]:49934)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.80.1)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncBDNZFNNFVAHRBXGKQ6QQKGQEKH7MX6Y@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1XWXau-00028z-2X
	for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:26:00 -0700
Received: by mail-ee0-f62.google.com with SMTP id b57sf539413eek.17
        for <lojban-list-archive@lojban.org>; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:25:49 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references
         :in-reply-to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results
         :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help
         :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=v1LYVvjgsDzOSUixFx0KLE49w9Bpra7l+lzUGRxSvD0=;
        b=n44N2HWNGx0+8+BZfVrmanR9J5ko+JSAgGHc9C293JC+kW9SL8ZJKmK+JoBASzWP0o
         OgLfcuMq23owTUXYYTBWYLCRgPQhcJeJbFSgO4XO/i0ipdkMccBkUe8QEAAXmDJ9v7tE
         lt3btumunGWz5DGXRXsjTugNc87sHMlnVvYFnXgXOJCj4zJnISafssbpB83HTbXhGOce
         9EypnkU+6kpP71xJiBsGeyV0HO5cpsniZkYPW0lV26DVYZynTHswMjJNmp+6/ZJCDz0j
         hge70ctJRmDuUx3uVT6xr2lRlmi2s2DJEjl/LFsak2bbGkMIR/tIRrgaRL6zfYb7DwaY
         SWOw==
X-Received: by 10.152.21.71 with SMTP id t7mr444lae.42.1411507549026;
        Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:25:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.152.19.73 with SMTP id c9ls86350lae.37.gmail; Tue, 23 Sep 2014
 14:25:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.152.21.137 with SMTP id v9mr331039lae.1.1411507547895;
        Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:25:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wg0-x22f.google.com (mail-wg0-x22f.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h1si223334wib.0.2014.09.23.14.25.47
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:25:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f;
Received: by mail-wg0-f47.google.com with SMTP id y10so5399909wgg.6
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:25:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.180.95.66 with SMTP id di2mr6709787wib.60.1411507547760;
        Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:25:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.208] ([95.147.224.104])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id p1sm17253995wjy.22.2014.09.23.14.25.45
        for <multiple recipients>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:25:46 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <5421E577.7030608@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 22:26:15 +0100
From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120711 Thunderbird/14.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Logos Initiative
References: <e0b23cf5-5a67-4a9b-8db0-7d310eb4116e@googlegroups.com> <1411477094.38293.YahooMailNeo@web181101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <CAO7bV+hT-w4fVijh16a2Cjq_XL123MLnJwnJHW+AKD1=b+2+sA@mail.gmail.com> <10015234.iSzs6ACWpT@caracal> <1411491978.17934.YahooMailNeo@web181104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <1411491978.17934.YahooMailNeo@web181104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
X-Original-Sender: and.rosta@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com;       spf=pass
 (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f
 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=and.rosta@gmail.com;       dkim=pass
 header.i=@gmail.com;       dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
 <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-)
X-Spam_score: -1.9
X-Spam_score_int: -18
X-Spam_bar: -

'John E Clifford' via lojban, On 23/09/2014 18:06:
> "Logical language" does have a number of uses and Lojban fails in
> just about all of them (including "having a bsic grammar based on
> symbolic logic", though it comes closest to this one). As usual, what
> I mean is a language in which every utterance is traceable to a
> unique representation in a suitable logic formalism, which
> representation correctly gives the meaning of the utterance, and is
> reached from the linguistic form by automatic formal rules (parsing).

This is pretty much what I mean too, and I think it is the most sensible un=
derstanding of "logical language".

A possible area of difference is that I hold that the formal specification =
of the language must specify the predicate--argument structure encoded by a=
 sentence but need not formally specify the meaning of every (or any) predi=
cate, and hence need not formally model the world or the universe of ideas.

--And.

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.