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[216.109.115.69]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t6si2939930qcd.0.2014.09.23.19.34.49 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Sep 2014 19:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.109.115.69 as permitted sender) client-ip=216.109.115.69; Received: from [66.196.81.163] by nm17.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2014 02:34:49 -0000 Received: from [66.196.81.140] by tm9.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2014 02:34:49 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1016.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2014 02:34:49 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 242281.39031.bm@omp1016.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 3671 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Sep 2014 02:34:48 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: fjHyXRMVM1lqHQAyygtCmw568ORtwHQwv36oS7Ef8I03aNY KkTcm0kgAV2VzYpKfo4UwEyJmZI9.Fp8FpLmsFsaWUWWAXpekbCSNuHpvEqz 9WipFPN9rPnQEoGkDk8VaGe8QYGAY9fviCu1xryBVdBsxMb3ND9h3wEsOXy_ BshafDFRxFvZkKNxkLDBpfBt.WJUVWA2T.K5o3pwPTHLZrn7RJowPd7RljhN 4bGHktzTwdxWMnHdnTcsBlDR9K84F2vg5y0QWlKmEG0aJosq506pB.9b8OAw r4YUd2eEi0VStkfi.t1tnscZKa3uSJh2KRpc5Pnlt9Ubg6NBTT0BYuuZQKgd stCG.tR4uajxwPHLp6yI29.447IefBgaJIMSYqAJpgm9UseNqHGQrRDyuAcK bTXtNmYqxltm4Mz5A8YhKmhwj59g15CnA2ZJYHbjV_45PeXwwuGvpE9eMGwl nJ0MXfdKfroOMdqZq6eaf4DqLXe4YglkkS0WHy5b.xoJSMG1c7BpqQzTllex 2OgvSNSQD9J2QXa03T32BLFlnO922RFqmSEmiU1kQdUW7IKct.wHKMCLrE9b jZduD7c47QXyBsBAhNR6C5iawFTGMulrFPuf7VghDSoYRglcuYAmrRP5jvlI LXf9rBPKtYr0U0o4ELDIuWxRe9EnaRvq7VasmoTeqdjBNhW1zqfF0x8WSgl4 kIrLQ0SstNi_vHWoV8btbeLEo34beMxPASftzbUAH1Kf_H0GE2EYJ Received: from [99.92.109.82] by web181106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 19:34:48 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,VGhlIHRlbnNlIGNhc2UgaXMgdHJpY2t5LCBidXQgdGhlIFRvYXEgc2VlbXMgdG8gYmUganVzdCBjb250b3VyICh0aGUgdmVyeSBicmllZiBkZXNjcmlwdGlvbiBpcyBhbHNvIHZlcnkgdW5jbGVhciBvbiB0aGUgZGV0YWlscyAtLSBjYW4gdGhlIHNhbWUgbGluZWFyIHdvcmQgdGFrZSBvbiBkaWZmZXJlbnQgcm9sZXMgd2l0aCBkaWZmZXJlbnQgbWVhbmluZ3MgZGVwZW5kaW5nIG9uIHBpdGNoPykuCgoKT24gVHVlc2RheSwgU2VwdGVtYmVyIDIzLCAyMDE0IDg6MDcgUE0sIFBpZXJyZSBBYmJhdCA8cGhtYUBiZXoBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.203.696 References: <5BBBFC8F-0363-4B88-A736-8AD0A9B5CB22@yahoo.com> <2001156.I81ItpP8Hx@caracal> Message-ID: <1411526088.69342.YahooMailNeo@web181106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 19:34:48 -0700 From: "'John E Clifford' via lojban" Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Logos Initiative To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" In-Reply-To: <2001156.I81ItpP8Hx@caracal> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.109.115.69 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass header.i=@yahoo.com; dmarc=pass (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=yahoo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Original-From: John E Clifford Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-910415156-949535806-1411526088=:69342" X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- ---910415156-949535806-1411526088=:69342 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The tense case is tricky, but the Toaq seems to be just contour (the very brief description is also very unclear on the details -- can the same linear word take on different roles with different meanings depending on pitch?). On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 8:07 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 23:42:19 Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > Then a wrong term has been used for Toaq Dzu since tones there an in guaspi > represent syntactic roles and dont create new words just like in English > interrogative intonation ti'e doesnt produce new words. Toaq uses tone to distinguish predicates from arguments. Some natlangs use tone to mark verb tense. This is still tone. English uses intonation to mark a clause as a question; it doesn't mark a single word. Pierre -- li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ---910415156-949535806-1411526088=:69342 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The tense case is tricky, but the To= aq seems to be just contour (the very brief description is also very unclea= r on the details -- can the same linear word take on different roles with d= ifferent meanings depending on pitch?).


On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 8:07 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:


On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 23:42:19 Gleki Arxokuna w= rote:
> Then a wrong term has been used for Toaq Dzu s= ince tones there an in guaspi
> represent syntactic ro= les and dont create new words just like in English
> i= nterrogative intonation ti'e doesnt produce new words.
Toaq uses tone to distinguish predicates from arguments. S= ome natlangs use
tone to mark verb tense. This is still = tone. English uses intonation to mark a
clause as a ques= tion; it doesn't mark a single word.

P= ierre
--
li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te= 'a mu du
li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci


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