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[216.39.63.78]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id pk7si1979035pbc.2.2014.09.24.07.03.32 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.39.63.78 as permitted sender) client-ip=216.39.63.78; Received: from [216.39.60.173] by nm20.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2014 14:03:32 -0000 Received: from [216.39.60.164] by tm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2014 14:03:32 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1030.access.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2014 14:03:32 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 770975.10000.bm@omp1030.access.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 18685 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Sep 2014 14:03:32 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 21xnucYVM1kHZu1y2xT6JznN2vB4V5Xj9b.El.lehrvQbjY UbVtucb9ayjivGUfCL0uEeAE9AqlqiYOuKnShqJX1xmoYUPYrzeVLv1VPNV8 sd1IX_s97fyFq1CrmRZ.LVkm5hYRtqPK5.b1U.ProbLFh7ja6B_6vrNSE862 X_CdgjPN43cQN0qIWVCUGG.CT1RIB450YDwTYAOx_Mf5f61MnuH1zas6BAhE 1JoYrd6PXpmEc38qUvmyXFEZyIyiCGusqOi0R_nQVVV_f.w_PGKUrdvrQiLh ajY9dZ2LgpYdNBRwimXdBIpkcJLES5tnJvzlAj5z3.WvnM9YJRdDlkLh9hCX Obc5exJiH4xhkF5moEmwOqs4D7tBD_F3FzWB7u3sZr9jQ9uw3C.Cds9I2w19 eA6_0lGd8bzefUTpmcx_ILiPnxf3Rl19bKJwAhEoEgdiN2F9APIMZaj8GQth Xnh05wf.dXrKkL.5qNWc0zBAx1OGpDv6H_qolybw0jQpmT.BMi4GH3jrddML pBWDQaI4zT4kyPEVUK_sQXOwHpRAfjdrDPeEEpp0myJ9aeDSboobRxDJ8yfv oyVQyEuWdNNwivLQYcCsj1ZfTvDYlufqB25gnZtFpcphCXPoZ5ibzAEjxuT8 _fWvl.YbXZPpRMBicBmGXnZoyxwh.SuPV640gkZp4BfcODzLDd7qyNfn3W8W pDsygATrdKP4asoD0nJpYWKloaDar4EnCNwSI2i596CcONrfndriVG0YLYoQ fW1QIDyU14oHQpuq1rlZwh7qPARclKB5vbXe5Iz2nBkVdj7Nhybkj1ngs9Zg Tm8afMvL7JibAfucr3DR2zrEcjPK.z4y1yl6eVaoFjnyTzPhz Received: from [99.92.109.82] by web181102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:03:32 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,VGhlIG1vc3QgY2xlYXJseSBtaXNzaW5nIGl0ZW0gaW4gdGhpcyBhcmVhIGlzIHRoZSBiaWcgb25lLCBhIHByb2dyYW0gZm9yIGNvbnZlcnRpbmcgYW55IExvamJhbiBzZW50ZW5jZSB0byBhIGZvcm11bGEgb2YgYW4gYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgbG9naWMgZm9ybXVsYXJ5LiAgT3IsIGNvbnZlcnNlbHkgKG9yIHBlcmhhcHMgcmVjaXByb2NhbGx5KSBhIHNldCBvZiB0cmFuc2Zvcm1hdGlvbnMgZm9yIGNvbnZlcnRpbmcgZm9ybXVsYWUgb2YgbG9naWMgaW50byBncmFtbWF0aWNhbCBzZW50ZW5jZXMgb2YgTG9qYmFuLiABMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.203.696 References: <5f6a7dec-3c5d-477d-bd73-5bd69726b713@googlegroups.com> <1411515475.42591.YahooMailNeo@web181103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1465cea2-41be-48ac-8f02-934d4a4b904b@googlegroups.com> <88e103a9-04e1-4739-97c2-f37fa457e4a8@googlegroups.com> <90cb23e1-0ed7-4b3c-9626-c31c4c8a8076@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <1411567412.85594.YahooMailNeo@web181102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:03:32 -0700 From: "'John E Clifford' via lojban" Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Mathy person interested in concept, unsure where to begin. To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.39.63.78 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass header.i=@yahoo.com; dmarc=pass (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=yahoo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Original-From: John E Clifford Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="431184223-1906438077-1411567412=:85594" X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- --431184223-1906438077-1411567412=:85594 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The most clearly missing item in this area is the big one, a program for co= nverting any Lojban sentence to a formula of an appropriate logic formulary= . Or, conversely (or perhaps reciprocally) a set of transformations for co= nverting formulae of logic into grammatical sentences of Lojban. Uniquenes= s is desirable in both directions but essential in the sentence to formula = program. This is the proof of the "logical language" claim. (For now, thi= ngs about the language which make this task harder -- or things that would = make it easier if they were in the language -- should be noted but not acte= d on.) On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 8:27 AM, Romaji #### wr= ote: =20 Never? Interesting. I'll attempt to remedy that problem. On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > > > >2014-09-24 4:17 GMT+04:00 Romaji #### : > >Uh... >>I've just started. >>I'm not willing to pay anything yet. >>What about some online, community stuff? >>Or is that all going to not be what I want? >>Does anyone else here think they even unambiguously know what I want? > > >CLL (the reference grammar) is free. >all the links are here http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=3DLearning/en= =20 >Secondary links (unsorted) http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=3DLearning= _materials._Secondary_links >(which has some charts of lojban grammar) >However, I doubt Lojban has ever been described from a logician's mathemat= ician's viewpoint no matter how strange it might seem to you. > > > >> >>On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 8:14:09 PM UTC-4, TR NS wrote: >> >>> >>>On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 8:02:54 PM UTC-4, Romaji #### wrote: >>>I was looking for a kind of "quick reference" guide to get me started on= Lojiban, with stuff like a list of key words and suff/pre fixes, and basic= grammar rules, preferably in a logic based environment. >>>>So, basically, I'd be writing the textbook? >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>You can just read it: http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Lojban-Language-Joh= n-Cowan/dp/0966028309 >>--=20 >>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > >--=20 >You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Goo= gle Groups "lojban" group. >To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lo= jban/f9L_hAbBcwc/unsubscribe. >To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to lojban= +unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --431184223-1906438077-1411567412=:85594 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The most clearly missing item in this area is the = big one, a program for converting any Lojban sentence to a formula of an ap= propriate logic formulary.  Or, conversely (or perhaps reciprocally) a= set of transformations for converting formulae of logic into grammatical s= entences of Lojban.  Uniqueness is desirable in both directions but es= sential in the sentence to formula program.  This is the proof of the = "logical language" claim.  (For now, things about the language which m= ake this task harder -- or things that would make it easier if they were in= the language -- should be noted but not acted on.)



On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 8:27 AM, Romaji #### <= nxt101@gmail.com> wrote:


Never?
Int= eresting.
I'll attempt to remedy that problem.

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.n= ame@gmail.com> wrote:


2014-09-24 4:17 GMT+04:00 Romaji ###= # <nxt1= 01@gmail.com>:
Uh...
I've just started.
I'm not w= illing to pay anything yet.
What about some online, community stu= ff?
Or is that all going to not be what I want?
Does anyone else here think they even una= mbiguously know what I want?

CLL (the reference grammar) is free.
Secondary links (unsorted) <= a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://mw.lojba= n.org/index.php?title=3DLearning_materials._Secondary_links">http://mw.lojb= an.org/index.php?title=3DLearning_materials._Secondary_links
= (which has some charts of lojban grammar)
However, I doubt Lojban= has ever been described from a logician's mathematician's viewpoint no mat= ter how strange it might seem to you.



On Tuesday,= September 23, 2014 8:14:09 PM UTC-4, TR NS wrote:


On Tuesday, Se= ptember 23, 2014 8:02:54 PM UTC-4, Romaji #### wrote:
I was looking for a kind of "quick reference" gui= de to get me started on Lojiban, with stuff like a list of key words and su= ff/pre fixes, and basic grammar rules, preferably in a logic based environm= ent.
So, basically, I'd be writing the textbook?


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