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[216.39.63.74]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ss9si2066364pab.1.2014.09.24.09.01.49 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.39.63.74 as permitted sender) client-ip=216.39.63.74; Received: from [216.39.60.167] by nm16.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2014 16:01:49 -0000 Received: from [216.39.60.161] by tm3.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2014 16:01:49 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1027.access.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2014 16:01:49 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 549001.79117.bm@omp1027.access.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 36224 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Sep 2014 16:01:48 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 9pIoWQEVM1lePnuKX9.tBLSFnAzrLJ55SHlaRSxIEqC1Ppa iy5wvakYhwqwLNm4UqKxcWG1ZU3.cNdpq8APu5xBzB0eUzA5bklPj_oqqWo2 MFlcrqQLpc6tub3Iuab_t9PlEjcTHTLr7.pXKeeTZf8aCdpIeybdlf0UFWAk vzrOoYeNf3nJQlbxX9P1erMVriDev8TBezXEu.Wst.oPWnPy6ibzACJ9d1G1 25S86BBkkvmg6uyfytRLaRN2cVhhmK9GUsr.60x3qr5xY5ill1CXG6VFPmUl Qjliw69NHGo1i.wN19yVz9I525WRFWwbL5j9fN2hX.MPNOS5LYCIet3hwBSh sNui4hk_reDdfWNM_dZxFG2QEW_jSvrYqsyX3Io8402QdoRnhI_Akmz5EVqj jaIocVsDxd4rkaFwxgXA2cS01HwV4ElyDouz1sZmdVgCjoy6hoA1wrPKHlEz PHQv1TcLxs86hgqz7FSAWppfEersxWk3VG7tbcwoQSiS0Q4BKenWO2KAQ7zI qsET3dqLuDYN_YGWtIIpmD60CEGFQibgFyIWcxiTA5KZij7igwuo8rpM.pG9 KJM.7czca1_On.yuNEsaFGYrJPychBx.hjNKnC9gPnlTQhVJVIf1yNrR3Akt NMDjJCCulolJuPmFDVJYUHVZsWtZ7ih6cLbn5Eh.YCB0NuiXk4unVjtjHt10 TAF8uHv2YXsZ83sbZzKVoDmnoccz.frgi78EKcE82Qsc- Received: from [99.92.109.82] by web181103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:01:48 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,Qm90aCBhdHRpdHVkaW5hbHMgYW5kIHZvY2F0aXZlcyAoYW5kIEdyaWNlYW4gb3BlcmF0b3JzIGFuZCBldmlkZW50aWFscyBhbmQganVzdCBhYm91dCBhbnl0aGluZyBlbHNlIEkgY2FuIHRoaW5rIG9mKSBoYXZlIHBsYWNlcyBpbiB0aGUgZXh0ZW5kZWQgbG9naWNzIHRoYXQgY29tcHJpc2UgYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgYmFzZXMsIHNvIHRob3NlIGFyZSBub3QgcHJvYmxlbXMuCkl0IGlzIHByZXR0eSBlYXN5IC0tIGluIHRoZW9yeS4gIFdvcmtpbmcgb3V0IHRoZSBwcmFjdGljYWwgZGV0YWlscyBpcyB0aGUgYml0Y2gBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.203.696 References: <5f6a7dec-3c5d-477d-bd73-5bd69726b713@googlegroups.com> <1411515475.42591.YahooMailNeo@web181103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1465cea2-41be-48ac-8f02-934d4a4b904b@googlegroups.com> <88e103a9-04e1-4739-97c2-f37fa457e4a8@googlegroups.com> <90cb23e1-0ed7-4b3c-9626-c31c4c8a8076@googlegroups.com> <1411567412.85594.YahooMailNeo@web181102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1411570426.39518.YahooMailNeo@web181106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1411574508.45917.YahooMailNeo@web181103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:01:48 -0700 From: "'John E Clifford' via lojban" Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Mathy person interested in concept, unsure where to begin. To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.39.63.74 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass header.i=@yahoo.com; dmarc=pass (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=yahoo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Original-From: John E Clifford Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-204173969-734124944-1411574508=:45917" X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- ---204173969-734124944-1411574508=:45917 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Both attitudinals and vocatives (and Gricean operators and evidentials and = just about anything else I can think of) have places in the extended logics= that comprise appropriate bases, so those are not problems. It is pretty easy -- in theory. Working out the practical details is the b= itch. But I suspect the real reason it has not been done is that no one ha= s until recently been very explicit about what needs to be done, the whole = having been expressed in vague generalities rather than (slightly) more spe= cific programs. Score a point or two for the radical revisionists. On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 10:14 AM, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: =20 On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 11:53 AM, 'John E Clifford' via lojban wrote: If Lojban really does contain non-logical elements (I'm not sure what that= means, but ...)=20 I was thinking of attitudinals, for example. Or vocatives. =20 Since the formula to language move is just (theoretically) standard lingui= stics, it ought to be relatively easy and then the trip back be pretty stra= ightforward (by forcing if nothing else). =20 Yes, all of that is pretty easy.=20 mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ---204173969-734124944-1411574508=:45917 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Both attitudinals and vocatives (and Gricean opera= tors and evidentials and just about anything else I can think of) have plac= es in the extended logics that comprise appropriate bases, so those are not= problems.
It is pretty easy -- in theory.  Working out the practical details is= the bitch.  But I suspect the real reason it has not been done is tha= t no one has until recently been very explicit about what needs to be done,= the whole having been expressed in vague generalities rather than (slightl= y) more specific programs.  Score a point or two for the radical revisionists.


On Wednesday, Septemb= er 24, 2014 10:14 AM, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>




On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 11:53 AM, 'John E Clifford' via lojban <l= ojban@googlegroups.com> wrote:
 If Lojban really does c= ontain non-logical elements (I'm not sure what that means, but ...) =

I was thi= nking of attitudinals, for example. Or vocatives.
 

 Since the formula to l= anguage move is just (theoretically) standard linguistics, it ought to be relative= ly easy and then the trip back be pretty straightforward (by forcing if not= hing else).  

Yes, all of that is pretty easy. 

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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