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Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 17:05:16 +0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Tenseless predicates mean -able?
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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2014-09-26 16:56 GMT+04:00 TR NS <transfire@gmail.com>:

> I just read section 3.8 of Loglan 1. In it JCB talks about how the
> tenseless predictions entail the concept of *can*. For example, he gives
> the word {ditca} as meaning "X teaches Y to W". Then he gives the example:
>
>     Da fu ditca
>
> Where "fu" converts the 1st and 3rd places. Translated into Lojban (which
> has as different order) I think it is:
>
>     da se ctuca
>
> JCB says it means "X is teachable" and goes on to reinforce the concept
> that, lacking a tense operator, the predicate entails the meaning of *can*.
> Quote, "For in Loglan the fundemental thing about an object is not whether
> it *has* been eaten or taught, but whether it is the kind of thing that
> *can* be eaten or taught." I see no mention of this idea in Lojban's
> grammar, and in Lojban I would translate it as "X is a student". Those
> translations are similar but certainly not the same thing.
>
> Did I miss something? Which is correct?
>

You should ask on loglanists mailing list about that. But in Lojban it is
just vague.

To explicitly express "-able" use {ka'e} adverb.
i la alis ka'e se ctuca = Alice is possible to be taught.
i la alis ka'e ba mo'u cilre = It is possible that Alice will learn
[something].
i la alis cu tadni = Alice is/was/will be a student.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">2014-09-26 16:56 GMT+04:00 TR NS <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:transfire@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">transfire@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>=
:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I just read section 3.=
8 of Loglan 1. In it JCB talks about how the tenseless predictions entail t=
he concept of *can*. For example, he gives the word {ditca} as meaning &quo=
t;X teaches Y to W&quot;. Then he gives the example:<div><br></div><div>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Da fu ditca</div><div><br></div><div>Where &quot;fu&quot; conver=
ts the 1st and 3rd places. Translated into Lojban (which has as different o=
rder) I think it is:</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 da se ctuca</di=
v><div><br></div><div><div>JCB says it means &quot;X is teachable&quot; and=
 goes on to reinforce the concept that, lacking a tense operator, the predi=
cate entails the meaning of *can*. Quote, &quot;For in Loglan the fundement=
al thing about an object is not whether it *has* been eaten or taught, but =
whether it is the kind of thing that *can* be eaten or taught.&quot; I see =
no mention of this idea in Lojban&#39;s grammar, and in Lojban I would tran=
slate it as &quot;X is a student&quot;. Those translations are similar but =
certainly not the same thing.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Did I miss som=
ething? Which is correct?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You s=
hould ask on loglanists mailing list about that. But in Lojban it is just v=
ague.</div><div><br></div><div>To explicitly express &quot;-able&quot; use =
{ka&#39;e} adverb.</div><div>i la alis ka&#39;e se ctuca =3D Alice is possi=
ble to be taught.</div><div>i la alis ka&#39;e ba mo&#39;u cilre =3D It is =
possible that Alice will learn [something].</div><div>i la alis cu tadni =
=3D Alice is/was/will be a student.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><sp=
an class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">

<p></p>

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</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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