Received: from mail-lb0-f192.google.com ([209.85.217.192]:50939) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XYCSA-0005S9-Rp for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 04:15:54 -0700 Received: by mail-lb0-f192.google.com with SMTP id f15sf175438lbj.29 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 04:15:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=AQjDil1qODi06tVh9m/oTCT5/BnAJwzSk5IIAlC55sU=; b=RZ/bP2M2DGovsZGyV9Ksjr9KBbB2ya8gFzpukl7wSg0AVkVjswNM9OC5+LtmvfZcCw eBz0QiyQDwZQ7nBUKSAtUo+tiYlEvvZHyPD263S8Hxl/FBtlMyPlnZa6DrONGLPRSLGc svZeL2yMuVGmBa3Mz7kW+9GP0ezWUqoM06gv5zfx/1bwrhmPwd579/IHknaUfAcuMamp q2xIvyUNiBngoq+UsOKlzUUku1IgVsCbkIHFiZkEq1+fe1W7AtlBxvED7mGG86gSsRpH cHs5quVBzccihY72N1nG7uMiCXgI0LeSDGrFa5emRiiDHTFQRHpDJiGVq7JKuWavLjif d6uw== X-Received: by 10.152.29.225 with SMTP id n1mr661lah.11.1411902939734; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 04:15:39 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.7.169 with SMTP id k9ls549822laa.91.gmail; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 04:15:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.62.130 with SMTP id y2mr3598992lbr.4.1411902938241; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 04:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x234.google.com (mail-la0-x234.google.com [2a00:1450:4010:c03::234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id us10si372490lbc.1.2014.09.28.04.15.38 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 28 Sep 2014 04:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::234 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c03::234; Received: by mail-la0-x234.google.com with SMTP id hz20so56708lab.11 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 04:15:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.130.41 with SMTP id ob9mr30098869lbb.12.1411902938136; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 04:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.4.163 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 04:15:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5427DCE6.9020900@gmx.de> References: <5427DCE6.9020900@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 15:15:38 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Speaker specificity: {.i da'i na vajni} From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b342ba615c62a05041e454f X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --047d7b342ba615c62a05041e454f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 zo tau poi laldo zo'u: pe'i lo pilno be le (to oise'i toi) bangu, no'u la lojban, na bredi sa'u lo ka pilno lo simsa. i lo brivla e lo cmavo, vu'o poi lerfu ciste srana, cu jai nandu fai lo ka pilno, i ba'a no da ca certu lo ka pilno lo go'i, iseki'ubo e'u ca vimcu sa'u lo tai valsi, i ku'i li'a na srana lo se casnu po lo dei se casnu boxna. 2014-09-28 14:03 GMT+04:00 selpa'i : > la .xorxes. cu cusku di'e > >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 7:43 PM, And Rosta > > wrote: >> I had misremembered {voi}. I mean rather that {le broda} is {lo co'e >> voi'i ke'a broda}, where {voi'i} is nonveridical {noi} (I haven't >> found an existing experimental cmavo for that in jbovlaste, but I >> may have searched with insufficient diligence). {Voi} itself seems >> utterly useless: has it ever been used correctly and meaningfully? >> >> I don't think it has seen much use at all. I'm sure the irci boys will >> soon find a better use for it since they seem to be re-purposing all >> those wasted one syllable cmavo like "tau", "lau" and such. >> > > I might as well link to http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=new_voi > > You might recognize it as being basically {poi'i}, but shorter and without > experimental shape. So far it seems there are already a few people who like > new-{voi} and are already using it, possibly a bit timidly. I think a lot > of potential changes have been prevented through peer-pressure in the past; > people are being attacked and/or treated like outcasts when they do > something different. I'm sure that if that weren't so, there would have > been even more proposals and actual changes in usage (because less fear > allows for more creativity). > > As for old-{voi}, I agree it's utterly useless. > > mi'e la selpa'i mu'o > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7b342ba615c62a05041e454f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
zo tau poi laldo zo'u: pe'i lo pilno be le (to ois= e'i toi) bangu, no'u la lojban, na bredi sa'u lo ka pilno lo si= msa. i lo brivla e lo cmavo, vu'o poi lerfu ciste srana, cu jai nandu f= ai lo ka pilno, i ba'a no da ca certu lo ka pilno lo go'i,
isek= i'ubo e'u ca vimcu sa'u lo tai valsi, i ku'i li'a na sr= ana lo se casnu po lo dei se casnu boxna.

2014-09-28 14:03 GMT+04:00 selpa'i = <s= eladwa@gmx.de>:
la .xorxes.= cu cusku di'e
On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 7:43 PM, And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com
 <mailto:and.ros= ta@gmail.com>> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I had misremembered {voi}. I mean rather that {le broda} is {= lo co'e
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 voi'i ke'a broda}, where {voi'i} is nonveridical = {noi} (I haven't
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 found an existing experimental cmavo for that in jbovlaste, b= ut I
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 may have searched with insufficient diligence). {Voi} itself = seems
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 utterly useless: has it ever been used correctly and meaningf= ully?

I don't think it has seen much use at all. I'm sure the irci boys w= ill
soon find a better use for it since they seem to be re-purposing all
those wasted one syllable cmavo like "tau", "lau" and s= uch.

I might as well link to http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=3Dnew= _voi

You might recognize it as being basically {poi'i}, but shorter and with= out experimental shape. So far it seems there are already a few people who = like new-{voi} and are already using it, possibly a bit timidly. I think a = lot of potential changes have been prevented through peer-pressure in the p= ast; people are being attacked and/or treated like outcasts when they do so= mething different. I'm sure that if that weren't so, there would ha= ve been even more proposals and actual changes in usage (because less fear = allows for more creativity).

As for old-{voi}, I agree it's utterly useless.

mi'e la selpa'i mu'o

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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
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--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
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