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Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 18:16:37 +0100
Message-ID: <CACf3dP=vUzgG=+_5D3TyqbpBDSGTNg_5koH-3th_4DOFcW6ueA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Speaker specificity: {.i da'i na vajni}
From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
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Assigning /voi/ to {poi'i} -- excellent stuff! I'm delighted to hear it's
being used already. Rereading today some discussion from 12+ years ago, I
see {se ka} was also proposed, subject to instigation of a convention for
coercing added sumti places by addition of SE or FA.

Is there a list of cmavo recycling proposals? I saw somewhere a proposal to
recycle /du/, which I was initially a little consternated by, since {le du}
had seemed very useful to me (as meaning unbound "he, she, it, they"), but
I guess that could be got by {lo co'e}, with {co'e} meriting a monosyllabic
form.

--And.
la .xorxes. cu cusku di'e

> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 7:43 PM, And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com
> <mailto:and.rosta@gmail.com>> wrote:
>     I had misremembered {voi}. I mean rather that {le broda} is {lo co'e
>     voi'i ke'a broda}, where {voi'i} is nonveridical {noi} (I haven't
>     found an existing experimental cmavo for that in jbovlaste, but I
>     may have searched with insufficient diligence). {Voi} itself seems
>     utterly useless: has it ever been used correctly and meaningfully?
>
> I don't think it has seen much use at all. I'm sure the irci boys will
> soon find a better use for it since they seem to be re-purposing all
> those wasted one syllable cmavo like "tau", "lau" and such.
>

I might as well link to http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=new_voi

You might recognize it as being basically {poi'i}, but shorter and without
experimental shape. So far it seems there are already a few people who like
new-{voi} and are already using it, possibly a bit timidly. I think a lot
of potential changes have been prevented through peer-pressure in the past;
people are being attacked and/or treated like outcasts when they do
something different. I'm sure that if that weren't so, there would have
been even more proposals and actual changes in usage (because less fear
allows for more creativity).

As for old-{voi}, I agree it's utterly useless.

mi'e la selpa'i mu'o

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<p dir=3D"ltr">Assigning /voi/ to {poi&#39;i} -- excellent stuff! I&#39;m d=
elighted to hear it&#39;s being used already. Rereading today some discussi=
on from 12+ years ago, I see {se ka} was also proposed, subject to instigat=
ion of a convention for coercing added sumti places by addition of SE or FA=
.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Is there a list of cmavo recycling proposals? I saw somewher=
e a proposal to recycle /du/, which I was initially a little consternated b=
y, since {le du} had seemed very useful to me (as meaning unbound &quot;he,=
 she, it, they&quot;), but I guess that could be got by {lo co&#39;e}, with=
 {co&#39;e} meriting a monosyllabic form.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">--And.</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quot&lt;blockquote class=3D" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">la .xorxes. cu cusku di&#39;e=
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 7:43 PM, And Rosta &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:and.rosta@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">and.rosta@gmail.com</a><br>
&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:and.rosta@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">and.ros=
ta@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I had misremembered {voi}. I mean rather that {le broda} is {=
lo co&#39;e<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 voi&#39;i ke&#39;a broda}, where {voi&#39;i} is nonveridical =
{noi} (I haven&#39;t<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 found an existing experimental cmavo for that in jbovlaste, b=
ut I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 may have searched with insufficient diligence). {Voi} itself =
seems<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 utterly useless: has it ever been used correctly and meaningf=
ully?<br>
<br>
I don&#39;t think it has seen much use at all. I&#39;m sure the irci boys w=
ill<br>
soon find a better use for it since they seem to be re-purposing all<br>
those wasted one syllable cmavo like &quot;tau&quot;, &quot;lau&quot; and s=
uch.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I might as well link to <a href=3D"http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=3Dn=
ew_voi" target=3D"_blank">http://mw.lojban.org/index.<u></u>php?title=3Dnew=
_voi</a><br>
<br>
You might recognize it as being basically {poi&#39;i}, but shorter and with=
out experimental shape. So far it seems there are already a few people who =
like new-{voi} and are already using it, possibly a bit timidly. I think a =
lot of potential changes have been prevented through peer-pressure in the p=
ast; people are being attacked and/or treated like outcasts when they do so=
mething different. I&#39;m sure that if that weren&#39;t so, there would ha=
ve been even more proposals and actual changes in usage (because less fear =
allows for more creativity).<br>
<br>
As for old-{voi}, I agree it&#39;s utterly useless.<br>
<br>
mi&#39;e la selpa&#39;i mu&#39;o<br>
<br>
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</div>

<p></p>

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