Received: from mail-oi0-f57.google.com ([209.85.218.57]:41968) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XYZ3b-00021x-LN for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 04:24:00 -0700 Received: by mail-oi0-f57.google.com with SMTP id x69sf415788oia.22 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 04:23:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=kPWRpsz8aNIq5IfMYB7p0W8vnkPQZWDXSNmpzHWnDIc=; b=RwJSGSZtcYesMxlySXHosmUWJEeHfhSTK/Q0J8vJYII2tL35YBmQjxoC3AYACilO4a fvIx6l8UuBPxqShHhgJpOI5KCfIap8NiehFaB5yeOEQMRmjTPPREvlCy6TysmzSgIMu+ d2xy/ZahQFF+t7ysJtzu8G73fCKauHStj1Ogr3SDDL8rcD+O3hswak9FzAbhaWufecbY wcShnfsZ14ME9zGuqdCgzUlP7KfZkf+3lfkko/Ltaq5XcyP4w7BbHPDaBAl5J8oDYwpD RIXabUWdrd8NKM3WaAeIs/yekb/cfqSu5iFYYCVn66R0PC8u2Hf0muVuHa5bozwkFo2q CJXg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=kPWRpsz8aNIq5IfMYB7p0W8vnkPQZWDXSNmpzHWnDIc=; b=AMouyRwYhZhuovrzVLOl224ezel5JAtxn3FRFibVoN5eupbrqkuVHz//fBgaHO4m9J Fen+PCUVe+x6PQhp34vBgwxtLih32To0EzEsRi1XrInwL5Vb9huYjL+tmLceVxxSY5Rs GVgvq2go45VxkUiFHL+iaOXtK4tuIJljIlgh6z01L0tbjwO73qpxOCRKWiWtWtic9TTD aZR8nvLWwm1gETRBgUJQyTnh4j4nyXSVToL4QP6F6wLa6YpFntnBhvBVDwkXFYrYN5XS fVlB2kZqWoHeT3Vzb+zI/ruMqpbirOvVfzpK0n56f22DiJn/+78nja6JZsEUII2fG4SD 2skg== X-Received: by 10.140.108.203 with SMTP id j69mr2810qgf.30.1411989828806; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 04:23:48 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.22.18 with SMTP id 18ls2008145qgm.63.gmail; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 04:23:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.23.228 with SMTP id 91mr10844qgp.19.1411989828560; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 04:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 04:23:47 -0700 (PDT) From: TR NS To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <957408e7-c827-4460-bf97-4a85642f29c7@googlegroups.com> <47666b9a-5ea7-4f43-b5c4-b72399ba47bb@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: New soi's scope MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: transfire@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_344_934987550.1411989827767" X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- ------=_Part_344_934987550.1411989827767 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Monday, September 29, 2014 5:39:54 AM UTC-4, And Rosta wrote: > > > On 29 Sep 2014 09:59, "TR NS" > wrote: > > > > On Monday, September 29, 2014 4:24:47 AM UTC-4, And Rosta wrote: > >> > >> > >> On 29 Sep 2014 04:45, "TR NS" wrote: > >> > > >> > >> That is a different proposal than the one for using /voi/ for {poi'i}, > which is the one you hadn't understood. > > > > > > Wait, that's a different "new voi" proposal? And both proposed by la > selpa'i? > > That's my impression. But the "as"-like voi is mooted just in a blog post, > not in any list of formal proposals. > "impression"? So you don't even know for sure? Can't you tell be reading the proposal? > >> > >> It struck me as quite reasonable and understandable that you, newish to > these topics, didn't understand that proposal, but not that you blamed the > proposer for that. > > > > Am I reading that right? Instead of explaining, you are taking the time > to rub my face in it? > > No, just to point out that the ethos and etiquette of the internet is that > one takes it upon oneself to educate oneself as far as one can, and seeing > that, others will be willing to give one a leg up to the areas one's > independent understanding cannot reach. One cannot reasonably expect others > to have prepackaged everything for one in easily digestible form. > Then you shouldn't reasonably expect anyone to learn the language either. I don't believe the ethos and etiquette of the internet is to answer an earnest request for explanation with, that's for us to know and you to figure out. I also don't think it is much to ask that proposals be explained with at least a smidgen of plain language. As a programmer I know the importance of writing good comments. I'd sink like a rock if I explained to my coworkers, you "cannot reasonably expect me to have prepackaged everything for you in easily digestible form." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_344_934987550.1411989827767 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Monday, September 29, 2014 5:39:54 AM UTC-4, An= d Rosta wrote:

<= br> On 29 Sep 2014 09:59, "TR NS" <tran= ...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Monday, September 29, 2014 4:24:47 AM UTC-4, And Rosta wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 29 Sep 2014 04:45, "TR NS" <tran...@gmail.com> wro= te:
>> >
>>
>> That is a different proposal than the one for using /voi/ for {poi= 'i}, which is the one you hadn't understood.
>
>
> Wait, that's a different "new voi" proposal? And both proposed by la s= elpa'i?

That's my impression. But the "as"-like voi is mooted just i= n a blog post, not in any list of formal proposals.

"impression"? So you don't even know for sure? Can't you tell = be reading the proposal?
 

>>
>> It struck me as quite reasonable and understandable that you, newi= sh to these topics, didn't understand that proposal, but not that you blame= d the proposer for that.
>
> Am I reading that right? Instead of explaining, you are taking the tim= e to rub my face in it? 

No, just to point out that the ethos and etiquette of the in= ternet is that one takes it upon oneself to educate oneself as far as one c= an, and seeing that, others will be willing to give one a leg up to the are= as one's independent understanding cannot reach. One cannot reasonably expe= ct others to have prepackaged everything for one in easily digestible form.=


Then you shouldn't reasonably expect a= nyone to learn the language either. I don't believe the ethos and etiquette of the internet is to&nb= sp;answer an earnest request for explanation with, that's for us to kn= ow and you to figure out. I also don't think it is much to ask that proposa= ls be explained with at least a smidgen of plain language. As a programmer = I know the importance of writing good comments. I'd sink like a rock if I e= xplained to my coworkers, you "ca= nnot reasonably expect me to have prepackaged everything for you in easily = digestible form." 

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