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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 17:56:41 +0100
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Speaker specificity: {.i da'i na vajni}
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selpa'i, On 29/09/2014 13:27:
> la .and. cu cusku di'e
> I think the whole notion of veridicality and non-veridicality is overstat=
ed.

Yes, it is overstated in CLL, early teaching materials, and Lojbab-level un=
derstanding of gadri, but it is nevertheless not insignificant.

> For the definite description nature of {le}, which is its main
> purpose, non-veridicality is irrelevant, and it would more likely to
> be defined in terms of quantifiers in a formal logic.

On the contrary, the description, with its identificatory function, is nonv=
eridical; to put it another way, it has independent illocutionary force of =
an identification, not an assertion; it is not part of the propositional co=
ntent of the main sentential illocution.

> Instead of {lo broda voi brode} you can always say {lo broda noi/poi
> mi skicu ke'a fo lo ka brode} and {noi simlu lo ka brode}.

Almost. But you need to sort out the illocutionarity. Is there a UI for 'he=
reby'? What'd be good would be a ko-like version of mi, meaning "I hereby",=
 such that the bridi it is a sumti of expresses an independent illocution: =
{lo broda noi/poi mi HEREBY skicu ke'a fo lo ka brode}

> As this is something that is relatively rarely needed, it doesn't
> matter that it doesn't have a shortcut cmavo.

It comes prebaked into le- gadri, but for any other identificatory phrase i=
t's needed. E.g. for something like "the day of the week that we got marrie=
d on", referring to Tuesday (without claiming we got married on Tuesday), "=
lo day-of-the-week identificatory-poi we got married on ke'a" -- much as Pi=
erre's orangutan example.

Without it, you lose a bit of needed functionality, but you don't wreck the=
 (putative) logical foundations of the language.

--And.

--=20
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