Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 07:36:22 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Speaker specificity: {.i da'i na vajni}
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On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:00:45 AM UTC-4, xorxes wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 7:35 AM, selpa'i <sel...@gmx.de <javascript:>> 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Although, if {le} is defined as a name, then the other definition I 
>> showed is available to define {lo}. Then there would at least be a much 
>> clearer difference between the two gadri. 
>
>
> The reason a Russell type quantifier is not quite right for "lo" is that 
> we don't want "naku lo broda cu brode" to be true just because there are no 
> brodas. The Frege/Strawson analysis is more in line with "lo", I think: 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definite_description
>
>
After reading over that, there's one thing I do know for sure. Man is 
exceedingly capable at tying himself up in mental knots.
 

> That's the reason for "noi" in the definition, we don't want the 
> description to share the illocutionary force of the claim, it has to be a 
> presupposition or something like that. 
>
>  
This may be of some interest to the conversation: 
http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9505/msg00071.html 

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:00:45 AM UTC-4, =
xorxes wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-le=
ft: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<br><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 7:35 AM, se=
lpa'i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-o=
bfuscated-mailto=3D"kRlHWKWsDNYJ" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'javascript:';=
return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'javascript:';return true;">sel...@gmx=
.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,2=
04);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span><br></span>
Although, if {le} is defined as a name, then the other definition I showed =
is available to define {lo}. Then there would at least be a much clearer di=
fference between the two gadri.&nbsp;</blockquote><div><br></div><div>The r=
eason a Russell type quantifier is not quite right for "lo" is that we don'=
t want "naku lo broda cu brode" to be true just because there are no brodas=
. The Frege/Strawson analysis is more in line with "lo", I think: <a href=
=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definite_description" target=3D"_blank" on=
mousedown=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fen.wik=
ipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FDefinite_description\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjC=
NF1bnvTNof-JVzajIULgPPNdCONBw';return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'http:/=
/www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FDefinite_des=
cription\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNF1bnvTNof-JVzajIULgPPNdCONBw';r=
eturn true;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Definite_description</a></di=
v><div><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>After r=
eading over that, there's one thing I do know for sure. Man is exceedingly =
capable at tying himself up in mental knots.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left=
: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote"><div></div><div>That's the reason for "noi" in the definition, w=
e don't want the description to share the illocutionary force of the claim,=
 it has to be a presupposition or something like that.&nbsp;</div><div><br>=
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>&nbsp;</div><div>This may be of s=
ome interest to the conversation: http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9505/msg0=
0071.html&nbsp;</div><div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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