Received: from mail-yh0-f63.google.com ([209.85.213.63]:38788) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XZ2s0-0004x0-3J for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:14:05 -0700 Received: by mail-yh0-f63.google.com with SMTP id b6sf460845yha.8 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:13:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=V1AP4ZjkXXM7PK/AzXqIZD36WmckqQFS8GqwojYu9mg=; b=X9JWab7AgT4jpEtpMKGJGEdcwlxoP0r6weKzOF50LoWAeb10r7WXxDpOyEiq+XQJLp d/S3YKf8G2LH8KJ8G08M8J8aoU0CStu6IAOPM4XQrYp5kKfpjdMseNkFp0wQ6HsMzC+f ozM4EOlSInZjFEmFASDnZDo87XoYB7REsYPzwDDTIURb/biQ8Wfs+awEPuJRN2Jm8WKA kMpZ0Ac+wJBMr3ATN/RFsTFiRtxthLdtdXhuNP5LIIzXm3nuwlWm93nWfgjfpiEq0SJw 6i3gZ56gN+aoX2OOTwOi1D0o173rWkTYqpq+bvg1AGOwQP98lcDoj6eGyPkz5N1WBf+w rpaQ== X-Received: by 10.50.114.101 with SMTP id jf5mr145410igb.4.1412104429609; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:13:49 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.3.65 with SMTP id a1ls444215iga.26.gmail; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:13:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.42.118.200 with SMTP id y8mr44552727icq.4.1412104429200; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x233.google.com (mail-qg0-x233.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c04::233]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dh5si1172834qcb.1.2014.09.30.12.13.49 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c04::233; Received: by mail-qg0-f51.google.com with SMTP id z107so3105608qgd.38 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:13:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.31.75 with SMTP id e69mr69981521qge.2.1412104429018; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:13:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.220.199 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:13:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20f1747b-2b63-4352-942e-de295621203a@googlegroups.com> From: MorphemeAddict Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 15:13:18 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: {le} as an anaphorical particle To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::233 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113a96cae0a74805044d2eb8 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --001a113a96cae0a74805044d2eb8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Without context (utterance or situation) for "He turned around", you just ask "Who?". stevo On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > References expand to outside of the text. > Without the context {le} turns into {lo} but using that would be silly. > What does "He turned around" means without context? > It must be either in the previous/current utterance or in the > previous/current context/situation. > > 2014-09-30 21:54 GMT+04:00 TR NS : > >> >> >> On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 6:25:19 AM UTC-4, la gleki wrote: >>> >>> It is in no way a proposal but just a thought mildly based on former >>> usage >>> >>> http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=%27%27%27le%27%27% >>> 27_as_an_anaphorical_particle >>> >>> For other proposals regarding {le} with full explanations add here: >>> http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=le >>> >> >> If one mentions something that is not in any previous utterance, does >> "look up" fall back to context? And beyond that if there is no clear >> referent, then is the thing presupposed? To clarify, if I said out of the >> blue, "le xirma cu bajra", do you just presuppose some horse exists? >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a113a96cae0a74805044d2eb8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Without context (utterance or situation) for "He turned= around", you just ask "Who?".=C2=A0

stevo

On Tue, = Sep 30, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.c= om> wrote:
References expand to outside of the text.
Without the context {le} tur= ns into {lo} but using that would be silly.
What does "He tu= rned around" means without context?
It must be either in the= previous/current utterance or in the previous/current context/situation.

2014-09-30 21:54 GMT+04:00 TR NS <trans= fire@gmail.com>:


On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 6:25:19 AM UTC-4,= la gleki wrote:
It= is in no way a proposal but just a thought mildly based on former usage

For other proposals regarding {l= e} with full explanations add here:=C2=A0http://mw.lojban.org/index.php= ?title=3Dle

If = one mentions something that is not in any previous utterance, does "lo= ok up" fall back to context? And beyond that if there is no clear refe= rent, then is the thing presupposed? To clarify, if I said out of the blue,= "le xirma cu bajra", do you just presuppose some horse exists?

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