Received: from mail-ee0-f57.google.com ([74.125.83.57]:49261) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XZDAK-0002Fd-3O for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:13:37 -0700 Received: by mail-ee0-f57.google.com with SMTP id c41sf11174eek.22 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:13:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=tinL0Y1SfV3LoBEugHQMKf24y5R2BlFlRRO11suvdJk=; b=xnZgLtsTPoF5vLTDGqh8KF/UeYV0coeKZXtSqWA/Qu2CzYtHwqv5kNo9HbPF1ctUeS xbHhtf1ylnVK8RdllOhM53bpyl2UOeV/cfFLQFLoLSVhBU6/5OGB71mvnKAXVNQ07MRZ yi0dxdJA/PGJ9+t6jn1VX/1jT9/Jh09Xrp0dGC+yUJ5hMxLiUXUe+SYtgFcDK/rvec+B PFNJT45rlYQvM7IS2mTP6tTkblCH9o6g9P3sw7h2+qV/0kfEPtz8T2BSR0xNBvkfeyLj rcnRS3tTxyTgldNCPICMMjykc7UOES+eP0NsHk0VKQo4g8iezYd7YBKNnd7zvXKXhEYr 3R0g== X-Received: by 10.152.7.99 with SMTP id i3mr946laa.20.1412144005277; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:13:25 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.43.50 with SMTP id t18ls115737lal.104.gmail; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:13:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.152.26.225 with SMTP id o1mr3228752lag.4.1412144003855; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x232.google.com (mail-wg0-x232.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c00::232]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h1si935059wib.0.2014.09.30.23.13.23 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::232 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::232; Received: by mail-wg0-f50.google.com with SMTP id a1so205869wgh.9 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:13:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.100.101 with SMTP id ex5mr7629828wib.79.1412144003724; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.175.167 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:13:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20f1747b-2b63-4352-942e-de295621203a@googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 10:13:23 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: {le} as an anaphorical particle From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::232 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0442811ab6ba4f05045665e0 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --f46d0442811ab6ba4f05045665e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2014-09-30 23:13 GMT+04:00 MorphemeAddict : > Without context (utterance or situation) for "He turned around", you just > ask "Who?". > Since this is about anaphora then it'd be translated as - i le nanmu pu carna - i ma goi le nanmu ? > > stevo > > On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Gleki Arxokuna < > gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: > >> References expand to outside of the text. >> Without the context {le} turns into {lo} but using that would be silly. >> What does "He turned around" means without context? >> It must be either in the previous/current utterance or in the >> previous/current context/situation. >> >> 2014-09-30 21:54 GMT+04:00 TR NS : >> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 6:25:19 AM UTC-4, la gleki wrote: >>>> >>>> It is in no way a proposal but just a thought mildly based on former >>>> usage >>>> >>>> http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=%27%27%27le%27%27% >>>> 27_as_an_anaphorical_particle >>>> >>>> For other proposals regarding {le} with full explanations add here: >>>> http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=le >>>> >>> >>> If one mentions something that is not in any previous utterance, does >>> "look up" fall back to context? And beyond that if there is no clear >>> referent, then is the thing presupposed? To clarify, if I said out of the >>> blue, "le xirma cu bajra", do you just presuppose some horse exists? >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --f46d0442811ab6ba4f05045665e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2014-09-30 23:13 GMT+04:00 MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>:
Without context (utterance or situation) fo= r "He turned around", you just ask "Who?".=C2=A0

Since this is about anaphora then= it'd be translated as=C2=A0
- i le nanmu pu carna
= - i ma goi le nanmu ?
=C2=A0
=

stevo

On Tu= e, Sep 30, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmai= l.com> wrote:
References expand to outside of the text.
Without the context {le} = turns into {lo} but using that would be silly.
What does "He= turned around" means without context?
It must be either in = the previous/current utterance or in the previous/current context/situation= .

2014-09-30 21:54 GMT+04:00 TR NS <transfire@gmail.com>:


On= Tuesday, September 30, 2014 6:25:19 AM UTC-4, la gleki wrote:
It is in no way a proposal but = just a thought mildly based on former usage


For other proposals regarding {le} with full explanations a= dd here:=C2=A0http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=3Dle

If one mentions something tha= t is not in any previous utterance, does "look up" fall back to c= ontext? And beyond that if there is no clear referent, then is the thing pr= esupposed? To clarify, if I said out of the blue, "le xirma cu bajra&q= uot;, do you just presuppose some horse exists?

<= div>

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