Received: from mail-wg0-f62.google.com ([74.125.82.62]:55749) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XZFmJ-0003Mp-Aw for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 02:01:00 -0700 Received: by mail-wg0-f62.google.com with SMTP id x12sf43862wgg.7 for ; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 02:00:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=wuM1y4w4cBoplZsdWDhlo8R2EaZqFtdK69P7zW6yMqs=; b=wiBTDC3OZL6JJ7YZ0OumBqqYZbfKfmnRJda4BmdwMYT3jhBsIeteNM+Jyx27ndBBqA u+wF00U4yXXKvqjL+HD2XBqvognV0kYIzt5q7oYBYG7/1zq9iskBK0ICbAaTt9CmzYr/ hfEVUyXNc4RVH5LNJQWHImvlbs6hwTVaN5k+pY0bsUMYzMqNQFUWzBpzIgOUSiKL/K13 SodrdPYc6UG1x2J+29VY6yHSueACsbCdAQZEyKhJ+V1kyIduqQqKltOJIcgyEe8iWmXG wM2sNvvOOpZ/UPMl8m2lKV4/owjGSrBHgvAjg4l/ptMP0iYzC9Q3RyUsgQ7E1zLE5FxJ 3mpA== X-Received: by 10.180.73.81 with SMTP id j17mr71395wiv.11.1412154048604; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 02:00:48 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.86.134 with SMTP id p6ls824620wiz.31.canary; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 02:00:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.194.7.199 with SMTP id l7mr7924523wja.2.1412154048145; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 02:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x244.google.com (mail-wg0-x244.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c00::244]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h1si13804wib.0.2014.10.01.02.00.48 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 01 Oct 2014 02:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::244 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::244; Received: by mail-wg0-f68.google.com with SMTP id a1so134621wgh.3 for ; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 02:00:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.20.139 with SMTP id n11mr12582082wie.22.1412154048017; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 02:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.175.167 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Oct 2014 02:00:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20141001085133.GW14210@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> References: <20141001075910.GU14210@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20141001080447.GV14210@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20141001085133.GW14210@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 13:00:47 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] CLL: I'd like to drop the formal grammars. From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::244 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec53d5b1f667c70050458bccb X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --bcaec53d5b1f667c70050458bccb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 The problem mentioned is not to be ignored. The refgram actually must give references to certain parts of PEG. However, it doesnt do it in CLL 1.0 and I'm pretty sure it won't do it even in CLL 2.0 What is more, I have no idea how that would help lo nintadni understand Lojban better. May be first you need to master PEG before reading CLL? That'd be silly. The most probable case would be to rephrase PEG expressions to human language and include that to CLL. But, ke'u, that'd be extremely hard although probably necessary in distant future. Has anyone heard of a course something like "Complete Idiot's Guide to PEG"? I haven't. 2014-10-01 12:51 GMT+04:00 Robin Lee Powell : > Reference for who? Who is actually going to type out the YACC or > the PEG from the book, or indeed make any other use of it from the > book? > > On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 10:25:49AM +0200, Remo Dentato wrote: > > I would suggest to leave it in for reference. If this version of CLL > serves > > as milestones it would be better to have everything in a single place. > > > > I hope the YACC grammar will be replaced by they PEG grammar in next > > version of CLL. > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Robin Lee Powell < > > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 12:59:10AM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > > > > > > In the age of ubiquitous internet, I feel that the entire Formal > > > > Grammars chapter simply doesn't belong in a printed book. > > > > > > > > Does anyone disagree? > > > > > > It's worth noting that doing so will require considerable re-wording > > > of Chapter 1, I just discovered. > > > > > > -- > > > http://intelligence.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic > future. > > > .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i dafsku lu na go'i li'u .e > > > lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e > > > lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu > sofybakni > > > li'u > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "lojban" group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > > > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "lojban" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > http://intelligence.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i dafsku lu na go'i li'u .e > lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e > lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni > li'u > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --bcaec53d5b1f667c70050458bccb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The problem mentioned is not to be ignored.
The refgra= m actually must give references to certain parts of PEG.
However,= it doesnt do it in CLL 1.0 and I'm pretty sure it won't do it even= in CLL 2.0

What is more, I have no idea how that = would help lo nintadni understand Lojban better. May be first you need to m= aster PEG before reading CLL? That'd be silly.
The most proba= ble case would be to rephrase PEG expressions to human language and include= that to CLL.
But, ke'u, that'd be extremely hard althoug= h probably necessary in distant future.

Has anyone= heard of a course something like "Complete Idiot's Guide to PEG&q= uot;?
I haven't.


2014-10-01 12:51 GMT+04:00 Robin Le= e Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>:
Reference for who?=C2=A0 Who is actually going to t= ype out the YACC or
the PEG from the book, or indeed make any other use of it from the
book?

On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 10:25:49AM +0200, Remo Dentato wrote:
> I would suggest to leave it in for reference. If this version of CLL s= erves
> as milestones it would be better to have everything in a single place.=
>
> I hope the YACC grammar will be replaced by they PEG grammar in next > version of CLL.
>
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Robin Lee Powell <
> rlpowell@digitalkingdom= .org> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 12:59:10AM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote:=
> > >
> > > In the age of ubiquitous internet, I feel that the entire Fo= rmal
> > > Grammars chapter simply doesn't belong in a printed book= .
> > >
> > > Does anyone disagree?
> >
> > It's worth noting that doing so will require considerable re-= wording
> > of Chapter 1, I just discovered.
> >
> > --
> > http://int= elligence.org/ :=C2=A0 Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> > .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i dafsku lu na go'= i li'u .e
> > lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li= 'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
> > lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e= lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni
> > li'u
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e Groups
> > "lojban" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,= send an
> > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> >
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups "lojban" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send= an email to lojba= n+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
http://intelligence.= org/ :=C2=A0 Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
.i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i dafsku lu na go'i li'u= .e
lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e = lu go'i na'i li'u .e
lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mam= ta be do cu sofybakni li'u

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+uns= ubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--bcaec53d5b1f667c70050458bccb--