Received: from mail-ob0-f185.google.com ([209.85.214.185]:57163) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XZXYz-0005kR-8D for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 21:00:25 -0700 Received: by mail-ob0-f185.google.com with SMTP id wo20sf135814obc.22 for ; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 21:00:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=c0SKgbsX56OKkIaYTdqMFV+5/XMl00RBtEYfmphgljs=; b=I9EI3syRMB6JrNhemUZXKPd0gXBLV8dhJYaxUCF0Pt23OmKoutuANBKpoNl3qUajwE N4LZwqA5Dts9XR/KaDS9JX7ApMDqU85QJY+ZUV6MNa0jMRL4NT79sEOLET6b59uJjilY mV2+jue75gmWv4ExTfgxF6Ei+oPPMqEPj4UgKvtBfV3XcJ09bhAsVqp5Hg2rE5h4RdTr pgOYiiCnl3TrrAvGw+0hAWxkjpWPld5HW1007rjWjZ1Wgux08jGnUmXKREE+ZX5rIB9W 8ctxieOS/PrK9fCffwIaEhbPNahrw6ZJ6wBmip7PjJTfA52Z7kpHO0mSqpjcfcJ8nIzH Iwwg== X-Received: by 10.50.43.228 with SMTP id z4mr7736igl.3.1412222414798; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 21:00:14 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.29.16 with SMTP id f16ls51989igh.34.gmail; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 21:00:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.39.15 with SMTP id l15mr455026igk.8.1412222411939; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 21:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qa0-x233.google.com (mail-qa0-x233.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c00::233]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k7si687950qcm.2.2014.10.01.21.00.11 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 01 Oct 2014 21:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c00::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c00::233; Received: by mail-qa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id k15so1257209qaq.38 for ; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 21:00:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.137.3 with SMTP id u3mr39840221qat.82.1412222411750; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 21:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.96.50.167 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Oct 2014 21:00:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3A4FF37D55E14477A597F95B03CB5846@gmail.com> References: <20141001075910.GU14210@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <3A4FF37D55E14477A597F95B03CB5846@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 22:00:11 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: CLL: I'd like to drop the formal grammars. From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c00::233 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2bbfe324502050468a7a3 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --001a11c2bbfe324502050468a7a3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm sure there's a reason why we can't just release both a with and without version, see which one gets purchased more, and use that info. to determine future version content? On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Alex Burka wrote: > I don't have much of an opinion since I prefer the PEG and obviously > that's not going in this edition, but surely Lojban is still confirmed as > machine-parseable by the inclusion of one and not both grammars. And I > don't mean to deny the usefulness of the YACC grammar to Bob, but I'll > point out that the fact that it was pedagogically useful to _write_ doesn't > necessarily imply that it's pedagogically useful for others to _read_ %^) > > mu'o mi'e la durka > > On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 at 11:24 PM, Spacenut wrote: > > As a layperson, not knowing anything about the formal grammar, I say we > absolutely should keep it in there. Though it may be of no use to me, The > Complete Lojban Language is not complete without the full grammar. Also, as > a less technical and more psychological argument, it reinforces the idea > that Lojban is 100% syntactically unambiguous to people who don't know > anything about the parser. The fact that it can be interpreted (don't know > if that's the right word there) by a computer is one of the reasons why I'm > learning Lojban, and having tangible evidence of that is pretty powerful. > > On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 3:59:12 AM UTC-4, Robin Powell wrote: > > > In the age of ubiquitous internet, I feel that the entire Formal > Grammars chapter simply doesn't belong in a printed book. > > Does anyone disagree? > > -- > http://intelligence.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i dafsku lu na go'i li'u .e > lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e > lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni > li'u > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/KpcylrlDNX0/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c2bbfe324502050468a7a3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm sure there's a reason why we can't just re= lease both a with and without version, see which one gets purchased more, a= nd use that info. to determine future version content?

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:38= PM, Alex Burka <durka42@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't have much of an opinion since I prefer= the PEG and obviously that's not going in this edition, but surely Loj= ban is still confirmed as machine-parseable by the inclusion of one and not= both grammars. And I don't mean to deny the usefulness of the YACC gra= mmar to Bob, but I'll point out that the fact that it was pedagogically= useful to _write_ doesn't necessarily imply that it's pedagogicall= y useful for others to _read_ %^)

mu'o mi'= e la durka
=20

On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 at= 11:24 PM, Spacenut wrote:

As a = layperson, not knowing anything about the formal grammar, I say we absolute= ly should keep it in there. Though it may be of no use to me, The Complete = Lojban Language is not complete without the full grammar. Also, as a less t= echnical and more psychological argument, it reinforces the idea that Lojba= n is 100% syntactically unambiguous to people who don't know anything a= bout the parser. The fact that it can be interpreted (don't know if tha= t's the right word there) by a computer is one of the reasons why I'= ;m learning Lojban, and having tangible evidence of that is pretty powerful= .

On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 3:59:12 AM UTC-4, Robin Powell wrote= :

In the age of ubiquitous internet, I feel that the entire Formal
Grammars chapter simply doesn't belong in a printed book.

Does anyone disagree?

-- =20
http://intellige= nce.org/ : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
.i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i dafsku lu na go'i li&#= 39;u .e
lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u= .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo= mamta be do cu sofybakni li'u

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=20

=20

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
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