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Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 15:03:54 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: {da poi} (was: Re: tersmu 0.2
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On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:

>
> So am I interpreting you correctly as suggesting that when we have
> a claim involving an unbound variable, e.g. that generated by {da poi
> broda zi'e noi brode}, we should deal with the unbound variable not by
> universally quantifying over brodaers but rather by replacing the
> variable with a constant whose referents are the brodaers?
>

I'm not adamant, but yes, I think it would have to be equivalent to:

   da poi broda zi'e goi ko'a noi brode

If so, how about something like
>     {su'oi tadni poi sruri su'o dinju zi'e noi darlu simxu}
> , in a context where there are many buildings being surrounded by
> various (possibly intersecting) groups of students?
>
> Would you have the side-claim being that all the students involved in
> surrounding any building argue, or only that each group of students
> which surrounds a building argues? The latter seems more natural to me.


I think the most natural is for the side-claim in:

   su'oi tadni poi sruri su'o dinju zi'e noi darlu simxu cu cladu

to be:

  lo su'oi tadni poi sruri su'o dinju gi'e cladu cu darlu simxu

but the problem with that is that it only works with some quantifiers. It
won't work with "no", for example.

What value does "ko'a" get in "su'oi tadni poi sruri su'o dinju zi'e goi
ko'a"? Or for that matter in "su'oi tadni goi ko'a", or in "no tadni goi
ko'a"? I think that's the value that the noi-clause should be about.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Martin Bays <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:mbays@sdf.org" target=3D"_blank">mbays@sdf.org</a>&gt;</span> wr=
ote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style=
:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><br>
</span>So am I interpreting you correctly as suggesting that when we have<b=
r>
a claim involving an unbound variable, e.g. that generated by {da poi<br>
broda zi&#39;e noi brode}, we should deal with the unbound variable not by<=
br>
universally quantifying over brodaers but rather by replacing the<br>
variable with a constant whose referents are the brodaers?<br></blockquote>=
<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m not adamant, but yes, I think it would have to =
be equivalent to:</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0da poi broda zi&#39=
;e goi ko&#39;a noi brode=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-l=
eft-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
If so, how about something like<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 {su&#39;oi tadni poi sruri su&#39;o dinju zi&#39;e noi darlu =
simxu}<br>
, in a context where there are many buildings being surrounded by<br>
various (possibly intersecting) groups of students?<br>
<br>
Would you have the side-claim being that all the students involved in<br>
surrounding any building argue, or only that each group of students<br>
which surrounds a building argues? The latter seems more natural to me.</bl=
ockquote><div><br></div><div>I think the most natural is for the side-claim=
 in:</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0su&#39;oi tadni poi sruri su&#39=
;o dinju zi&#39;e noi darlu simxu cu cladu</div><div><br></div><div>to be:<=
/div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 lo su&#39;oi tadni poi sruri su&#39;o dinju=
 gi&#39;e cladu cu darlu simxu</div><div><br></div><div>but the problem wit=
h that is that it only works with some quantifiers. It won&#39;t work with =
&quot;no&quot;, for example.</div><div><br></div><div>What value does &quot=
;ko&#39;a&quot; get in &quot;su&#39;oi tadni poi sruri su&#39;o dinju zi=
9;e goi ko&#39;a&quot;? Or for that matter in &quot;su&#39;oi tadni goi ko&=
#39;a&quot;, or in &quot;no tadni goi ko&#39;a&quot;? I think that&#39;s th=
e value that the noi-clause should be about.</div><div><br></div><div>mu=
9;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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