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Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 23:02:38 -0400
From: Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: {da poi} (was: Re: tersmu 0.2
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* Sunday, 2014-10-05 at 15:03 -0300 - Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.co=
m>:

> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:
>=20
> > So am I interpreting you correctly as suggesting that when we have
> > a claim involving an unbound variable, e.g. that generated by {da poi
> > broda zi'e noi brode}, we should deal with the unbound variable not by
> > universally quantifying over brodaers but rather by replacing the
> > variable with a constant whose referents are the brodaers?
>=20
> I'm not adamant, but yes, I think it would have to be equivalent to:
>=20
>    da poi broda zi'e goi ko'a noi brode

I would have ko'a binding to the variable there, so I agree with that
much!

> > If so, how about something like
> >     {su'oi tadni poi sruri su'o dinju zi'e noi darlu simxu}
> > , in a context where there are many buildings being surrounded by
> > various (possibly intersecting) groups of students?
> >
> > Would you have the side-claim being that all the students involved in
> > surrounding any building argue, or only that each group of students
> > which surrounds a building argues? The latter seems more natural to me.
>=20
> I think the most natural is for the side-claim in:
>=20
>    su'oi tadni poi sruri su'o dinju zi'e noi darlu simxu cu cladu
>=20
> to be:
>=20
>   lo su'oi tadni poi sruri su'o dinju gi'e cladu cu darlu simxu
>=20
> but the problem with that is that it only works with some quantifiers. It
> won't work with "no", for example.

No, I don't see that a general rule can come out of that.

> What value does "ko'a" get in "su'oi tadni poi sruri su'o dinju zi'e goi
> ko'a"? Or for that matter in "su'oi tadni goi ko'a", or in "no tadni goi
> ko'a"? I think that's the value that the noi-clause should be about.

Well... in all cases, I just have ko'a binding to the variable, so that
doesn't help at all!

(so I have e.g. {ro broda goi ko'a brode ko'a} ->
{ro da poi broda cu brode da}, and {ro broda goi ko'a du .i ko'a du}
being an error.)

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