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Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 15:58:49 +0200
From: Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: {da poi} (was: Re: tersmu 0.2
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On 06/10/2014 05:02, Martin Bays wrote:
>
>> What value does "ko'a" get in "su'oi tadni poi sruri su'o dinju zi'e goi
>> ko'a"? Or for that matter in "su'oi tadni goi ko'a", or in "no tadni goi
>> ko'a"? I think that's the value that the noi-clause should be about.
> Well... in all cases, I just have ko'a binding to the variable, so that
> doesn't help at all!
>
> (so I have e.g. {ro broda goi ko'a brode ko'a} ->
> {ro da poi broda cu brode da}, and {ro broda goi ko'a du .i ko'a du}
> being an error.)

I think the problem of attaching noi to a bound variable (da / de / di) 
is the same as that of attaching noi to a free variable (ke'a / ce'u): 
in both cases the sumti has no definite referent.

Moreover, I think we can expand {su'oi da broda} the following way:
{li su'o pa suzmeidza <http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/suzmeidza> lo ka 
ce'u broda}, where the quantified property's open sumti place 
effectively contains a free variable.

So, {su'oi da noi ke'a brode cu brodo} would become {li su'o pa 
suzmeidza <http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/suzmeidza> lo ka ce'u noi 
ke'a brode cu brodo}.

My best guess is that in such case the binded ke'a would become a 
synonym of the free variable ce'u, and therefore it wouldn't have any 
defined referent either.

mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o


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    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/10/2014 05:02, Martin Bays wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:20141006030238.GF1974@gonzales" type="cite"><br>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">What value does "ko'a" get in "su'oi tadni poi sruri su'o dinju zi'e goi
ko'a"? Or for that matter in "su'oi tadni goi ko'a", or in "no tadni goi
ko'a"? I think that's the value that the noi-clause should be about.
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">
Well... in all cases, I just have ko'a binding to the variable, so that
doesn't help at all!

(so I have e.g. {ro broda goi ko'a brode ko'a} -&gt;
{ro da poi broda cu brode da}, and {ro broda goi ko'a du .i ko'a du}
being an error.)
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    I think the problem of attaching noi to a bound variable (da / de /
    di) is the same as that of attaching noi to a free variable (ke'a /
    ce'u): in both cases the sumti has no definite referent.<br>
    <br>
    Moreover, I think we can expand {su'oi da broda} the following way:<br>
    {li su'o pa <a href="http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/suzmeidza">suzmeidza</a>
    lo ka ce'u broda}, where the quantified property's open sumti place
    effectively contains a free variable.<br>
    <br>
    So, {su'oi da noi ke'a brode cu brodo} would become {li su'o pa <a
      href="http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/suzmeidza">suzmeidza</a> lo
    ka ce'u noi ke'a brode cu brodo}.<br>
    <br>
    My best guess is that in such case the binded ke'a would become a
    synonym of the free variable ce'u, and therefore it wouldn't have
    any defined referent either.<br>
    <br>
    mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o<br>
    <br>
    <br>
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