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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 20:18:58 -0300
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2dhSLFQ1GnRvha=aZx6_M5mKsFdj=hvV+tTf-jXRP--Fw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: tersmu 0.2
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:08 PM, 'John E Clifford' via lojban <
lojban@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>
 So, insert the definition into its proper place: {lo broda cu brode} =
> {ze'a noi broda cu brode}. This latter is a tautology, since {ze'a} always
> refers to a thing which makes the predication true.
>

I don't think that's the right definition for "zo'e". If zo'e made any
sentence in which it appears true, it would be hard to express anything but
platitudes in Lojban. You would be forced to fill every place of every
predicate you use in order to say anything meaningful.

"zo'e" gets its referents from the context, but it is not necessarily
something that will make the sentence in which it appears true.


Finally, a practical note. Whatever the point of all this is, dealing with
> MEX now is bad idea. Given that the creators of Lojban don't know how MEX
> works and, to a great extent, don't even know how it should work, trying to
> explain it now is a thankless task foreddomed to failure. Eventually, when
> you have a successful theory (of whatever sort you are working on) for the
> core of Lojban, you will be in a position to apply that theory to MEX to
> explain how parts of it work and to criticize and guide the development of
> other parts. Hopefully. But not now and not yet as a part of e\developing
> that theory.
>

I tend to agree, but since some MEX are used in the parser expansions, we
either need to understand what they mean or replace them with more suitable
expansions.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:08 PM, &#39;John E Clifford&#39; via lojban <span =
dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank=
">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-c=
olor:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:HelveticaNeue,&#39;Helvetica Neue&#39;=
,Helvetica,Arial,&#39;Lucida Grande&#39;,sans-serif;font-size:16px;backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><div style=3D"border:none;padding:0in"><a name=
=3D"148f1972e6cf5e7f_yui_3_16_0_6_1412792080045_38"></a></div></div></div><=
/blockquote><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204=
);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,=
0,0);font-family:HelveticaNeue,&#39;Helvetica Neue&#39;,Helvetica,Arial,=
9;Lucida Grande&#39;,sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255=
,255)"><div style=3D"border:none;padding:0in"><font color=3D"#000000"><font=
 face=3D"HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sa=
ns-serif"><font size=3D"3">=C2=A0So, insert the definition into its proper =
place: {lo broda cu brode}
=3D {ze&#39;a noi broda cu brode}.  This latter is a tautology, since
{ze&#39;a} always refers to a thing which makes the predication true. </fon=
t></font></font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don=
9;t think that&#39;s the right definition for &quot;zo&#39;e&quot;. If zo&#=
39;e made any sentence in which it appears true, it would be hard to expres=
s anything but platitudes in Lojban. You would be forced to fill every plac=
e of every predicate you use in order to say anything meaningful.<br></div>=
<div><br></div><div>&quot;zo&#39;e&quot; gets its referents from the contex=
t, but it is not necessarily something that will make the sentence in which=
 it appears true.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>=
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:HelveticaNeue,&#39;Helvetica Neu=
e&#39;,Helvetica,Arial,&#39;Lucida Grande&#39;,sans-serif;font-size:16px;ba=
ckground-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><div style=3D"border:none;padding:0in"><fo=
nt color=3D"#000000"><font face=3D"HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica=
, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif"><font size=3D"3">Finally,
a practical note.  Whatever the point of all this is, dealing with
MEX now is  bad idea.  Given that the creators of Lojban don&#39;t know
how MEX works and, to a great extent, don&#39;t even know how it should
work, trying to explain it now is a thankless task foreddomed to
failure.  Eventually, when you have a successful theory (of whatever
sort you are working on) for the core of Lojban, you will be in a
position to apply that theory to MEX to explain how parts of it work
and to criticize and guide the development of other parts.=20
Hopefully.  But not now and not yet as a part of e\developing that
theory.</font></font></font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><=
div>I tend to agree, but since some MEX are used in the parser expansions, =
we either need to understand what they mean or replace them with more suita=
ble expansions.</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div=
><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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