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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 22:17:45 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: tersmu 0.2
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 9:17 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:46 PM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> I.e. we cannot easily say "three students are surrounding the building"
>> without bringing in a dummy {lo} that only serves to give us a plural via
>> inner quantifiers (even though there is no referent we wish to refer to).
>>
> It's not *that* bad:
>
> {.i su'o da ci de poi tadni zo'u da gunma de gi'e sruri lo dinju}
>

Or more concisely: "su'o gunma be ci tadni cu sruri lo dinju", "a group of
three students surrounds the building".

But that's cheating a bit, since we are singularizing rather than using
plural quantification. Maybe plural quantifier "su'oi ci" could be defined
as:

 su'oi ci broda cu brode := su'oi da poi broda zo'u ci de poi broda gi'e me
da zo'u da brode

Then we can say "su'oi ci tadni cu sruri lo dinju".

"There exists an X and three students Y such that X has Y as mass elements
> and X surrounds the building." I am not sure whether one must explicitly
> state {da ci mei} in this situation, but of course we can do that if needed.
>

I would say "lo gunma poi sruri lo dinju cu pa mei .i lo se gunma poi sruri
lo dinju cu ci mei"

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 9:17 PM, Ian Johnson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:blindbravado@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blindbravado@gmail.c=
om</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D"">On =
Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:46 PM, selpa&#39;i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:seladwa@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote=
:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I.e. we cannot easily say &quot;three s=
tudents are surrounding the building&quot; without bringing in a dummy {lo}=
 that only serves to give us a plural via inner quantifiers (even though th=
ere is no referent we wish to refer to).<br></blockquote></span>It&#39;s no=
t *that* bad:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote">{.i su&#39;o da ci de poi tadni zo&#39;u da gunma de gi&#39;e s=
ruri lo dinju}<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Or mor=
e concisely: &quot;su&#39;o gunma be ci tadni cu sruri lo dinju&quot;, &quo=
t;a group of three students surrounds the building&quot;.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>But that&#39;s cheating a bit, since we are singularizing rather th=
an using plural quantification. Maybe plural quantifier &quot;su&#39;oi ci&=
quot; could be defined as:</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0su&#39;oi ci brod=
a cu brode :=3D su&#39;oi da poi broda zo&#39;u ci de poi broda gi&#39;e me=
 da zo&#39;u da brode =C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Then we can say=
 &quot;su&#39;oi ci tadni cu sruri lo dinju&quot;.</div><div><br></div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>&quot;There exists an X and three students Y su=
ch that X has Y as mass elements and X surrounds the building.&quot; I am n=
ot sure whether one must explicitly state {da ci mei} in this situation, bu=
t of course we can do that if needed.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div><div>I would say &quot;lo gunma poi sruri lo dinju cu pa mei =
.i lo se gunma poi sruri lo dinju cu ci mei&quot;</div><div><br></div><div>=
mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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