Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::233;
Message-ID: <5446DE6D.3090307@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 00:30:05 +0200
From: Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: tersmu 0.2
References: <20141014010742.GF19061@gonzales> <CAO7tK2fVs8r0cbk_Cvu_TgAf19QA19fmqEFCFbQ=mROqpFvd-Q@mail.gmail.com> <20141015005542.GC3713@gonzales> <CAO7tK2cb-99yDWVYNN-yxCCXZsw=3t7O-aNbtd7rrhb5uTKq3w@mail.gmail.com> <20141018004531.GE20049@gonzales> <CAO7tK2c8JQsr+7zbrdos-9Wm1t8w+sH1SANSO6e_MGV4ZDjcow@mail.gmail.com> <20141018180946.GF20049@gonzales> <CAO7tK2dUSzYCWm+CNeNugkeU=aO6mWXSY3gn5dc+8XNU3GpasQ@mail.gmail.com> <20141018233648.GA29040@gonzales> <CAO7tK2eUqpe3AwAY-DxmONhxM3Pj5kyhTm605bAnD3iJEHVgug@mail.gmail.com> <20141021010639.GB11705@gonzales>
In-Reply-To: <20141021010639.GB11705@gonzales>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="------------060105000206040704020800"
X-Spam_score: -1.9
X-Spam_score_int: -18
X-Spam_bar: -

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------060105000206040704020800
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed


On 21/10/2014 03:06, Martin Bays wrote:
> Firstly, we need a way to assign an event/fact variable to a proposition
> without changing its semantics. {fi'o du} lets us do this; {fi'o du ko'a
> broda} means that broda occurs/holds and ko'a is equal to the
> event/fact of this. Let's make this a primitive in the logic, writing it
> as "=.", so e.g. "{ko'a}=. broda()". (So technically "[term]=." is
> a modal operator.)
>
> (I write the above paragraph as if I'm sure it makes sense, but I'm not.
> If there are many events of brodaing in the situation, is {fi'o du ko'a
> broda} true when ko'a is any of those events, or only when it's the
> "intended" one? The below makes sense in either case, but with subtly
> different results. If instead tags work such that {fi'o du ko'a broda}
> isn't true for *any* ko'a in such a situation, then there's a problem!)

I think you need {ca'e} for assigning a referent to {ko'a} (otherwise it 
would be an assertion "the bridi is identical to {ko'a}'s referent"), or 
whatever is the correct way to explicitly assign a referent to a 
pro-bridi without ambiguity.

{fi'o} is maybe a little too vague for your purpose; I'd suggest {broda 
xoi <http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/xoi> ke'a ca'e du fo'a} which 
would be semantically equivalent to {lo du'u broda ku ca'e du fo'a}, if 
I'm not mistaken.
The x1 of du would always be the bridi itself (thus a du'u), and not an 
event (nu) described by the bridi (the latter could be explicitly 
obtained by using {nundumu} <http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/nundumu>).

mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--------------060105000206040704020800
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/10/2014 03:06, Martin Bays wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:20141021010639.GB11705@gonzales" type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">Firstly, we need a way to assign an event/fact variable to a proposition
without changing its semantics. {fi'o du} lets us do this; {fi'o du ko'a
broda} means that broda occurs/holds and ko'a is equal to the
event/fact of this. Let's make this a primitive in the logic, writing it
as "=.", so e.g. "{ko'a}=. broda()". (So technically "[term]=." is
a modal operator.)

(I write the above paragraph as if I'm sure it makes sense, but I'm not.
If there are many events of brodaing in the situation, is {fi'o du ko'a
broda} true when ko'a is any of those events, or only when it's the
"intended" one? The below makes sense in either case, but with subtly
different results. If instead tags work such that {fi'o du ko'a broda}
isn't true for *any* ko'a in such a situation, then there's a problem!)
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    I think you need {ca'e} for assigning a referent to {ko'a}
    (otherwise it would be an assertion "the bridi is identical to
    {ko'a}'s referent"), or whatever is the correct way to explicitly
    assign a referent to a pro-bridi without ambiguity.<br>
    <br>
    {fi'o} is maybe a little too vague for your purpose; I'd suggest
    {broda <a href="http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/xoi">xoi</a> ke'a
    ca'e du fo'a} which would be semantically equivalent to {lo du'u
    broda ku ca'e du fo'a}, if I'm not mistaken.<br>
    The x1 of du would always be the bridi itself (thus a du'u), and not
    an event (nu) described by the bridi (the latter could be explicitly
    obtained by using <a
      href="http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/nundumu">{nundumu}</a>).<br>
    <br>
    mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &quot;lojban&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to <a href="mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href="mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/lojban">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/optout">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

--------------060105000206040704020800--