Received: from mail-vc0-f184.google.com ([209.85.220.184]:48159) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XhnZ0-0001kB-I3 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:42:38 -0700 Received: by mail-vc0-f184.google.com with SMTP id ij19sf275957vcb.11 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:42:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=a+zgAvXIHQEy5lTtKVi/lGBmjvKh5fuWbCEyMdZCFmw=; b=K92CkDO1UZiV0l+R34TAC45eZuuR+9IqPHbOImF6j2Nma59nUJj39CcfeDBOkeNzxL G69cY0iY1gtFiVWc1HA8ZQfIzw/To0jzsY+/83/BTfZ51eeb4QisBRr5dZTH72XDjchQ nsITpJtckz66aKo3L24W3PBuOYVFtiZr/CkXKK0HdASRqFu7fmLqdmsufbvHC8jnowam e6w6IIggqeKTtD2QAshroZQdDErPCC8isC0vrt4YhFIG4Ay6iYylXblAmmN1gJT3i2/g aTnKSfndrNWgB+a/pPxXnFQxi1nM5VNVIFzAx+AlS5CHq9rloxggZuVseNKXTPRiKyfj UwzQ== X-Received: by 10.50.254.131 with SMTP id ai3mr87002igd.14.1414190543904; Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:42:23 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.143.104 with SMTP id sd8ls317014igb.18.gmail; Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:42:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.66.65.202 with SMTP id z10mr3165863pas.43.1414190543343; Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com. [107.14.166.229]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id qm4si420705pdb.2.2014.10.24.15.42.22 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: none (google.com: phma@bezitopo.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) client-ip=107.14.166.229; Received: from [98.122.190.249] ([98.122.190.249:47647] helo=leopard.ixazon.lan) by cdptpa-oedge02 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 8C/30-18318-EC5DA445; Fri, 24 Oct 2014 22:42:22 +0000 Received: from caracal.localnet (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by leopard.ixazon.lan (Postfix) with ESMTP id 334B751DD for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2014 18:42:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Gender vs. Sex. Culture vs. nature. Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 18:41:50 -0400 Message-ID: <5274695.vYhaV4mGTX@caracal> User-Agent: KMail/4.13.3 (Linux/3.13.0-37-generic; KDE/4.13.3; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RR-Connecting-IP: 107.14.168.130:25 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Original-Sender: phma@bezitopo.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: phma@bezitopo.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) smtp.mail=phma@bezitopo.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 01:02:18 Alexander Kozhevnikov wrote: > Okay, I actually admit that sometimes one can generalize by wider patches > than 'species' - there are many traits common to wider categories, e.g. > true for most sea-horses, true for most arachnids, etc. But either way, > the point is it's still circular: it's "feminine" in that species because > that given species or set of species to which it belongs typically has > that trait in their females - but how did we decide such and such was male > or female? In some sense we base it on the biology of who produces the egg > and who produces the thing that fertilizes the egg... which of course is > largely based on what we as humanity found to be common based on taking > our existing cultural notions and then figuring out where the underlying > differences were in us. Eggs are bigger than sperm cells. This is true in almost all sexually reproducing species. A few produce equal-sized gametes of two types, which are not designated as eggs or sperm. Many animals (earthworms, slipper snails) and plants (roses, figs) have egg cells and sperm cells, but either produce both from one individual or have ways of being sexual other than simply male or female. Pierre -- sei do'anai mi'a djuno puze'e noroi nalselganse srera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.