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[2a00:1450:400c:c00::230]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o2si250871wib.2.2014.10.25.09.00.45 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 25 Oct 2014 09:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::230 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::230; Received: by mail-wg0-f48.google.com with SMTP id m15so1021135wgh.19 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2014 09:00:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.87.73 with SMTP id v9mr11315059wiz.22.1414252845847; Sat, 25 Oct 2014 09:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.103.65 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Oct 2014 09:00:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 20:00:45 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] {jai jai} and {fai} From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::230 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d044304dc7fdb090506416604 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --f46d044304dc7fdb090506416604 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2014-10-25 19:54 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > > On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Gleki Arxokuna < > gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> 2014-10-25 19:39 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : >> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < >>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I need two {jai}, one for creating fai-jai construction, the other to >>>> prevent raising of {ko'a}. >>>> (ko'a { <[fai ko'e] VAU>}) >>>> >>> >>> You mean _allow_ raising, right? "jai" allows raising an argument from = a >>> subordinate bridi up to the main bridi. >>> >>> I can see that fai refers to the outer {jai} which deals with raising >>>> but how to refer to the inner {jai}? >>>> >>> >>> Presumably "fai xi pa". That's how lojban usually deals with this sort >>> of things. >>> >> I wish I could wrap the inner {jai} with something like {ke}. >> > > You can: "jai ke jai ri'a broda [ke'e]" is grammatical, although > unnecessary in this simple case. > Well, I meant for moving {fai} inwards. {ke} doesnt work as {faixipa}. ({jai } { VAU}) Neither {be} is able to move it inwards: ({ } VAU) As for {faixipa} why do we start counting with {pa} from the inside, not from the outside}? And the current parsers currently don't provide inner links of what links what, they dont provide enough formalization. Compare this with FA where jbofi'e clearly understands which sumti fills which place of which bridi within the tree. > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --f46d044304dc7fdb090506416604 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2014-10-25 19:54 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.co= m>:


On Sat, Oct 25, = 2014 at 12:42 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:


2014-10-25 19:39 GMT+04:00 = Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:


On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
I need two {jai}, one for creating fai-jai construction, = the other to prevent raising of {ko'a}.
(ko'a {<jai [j= ai ri'a broda]> <[fai ko'e] VAU>})

You mean _allow_ raising, right? "jai&= quot; allows raising an argument from a subordinate bridi up to the main br= idi.=C2=A0

I can see that fai refers to the outer {jai} which deals with raising but = how to refer to the inner {jai}?

Presumably "fai xi pa". That's how lojban usuall= y deals with this sort of things.
I wish I could wrap the inner {jai} with something like {ke}.
<= /div>

You can: "jai= ke jai ri'a broda [ke'e]" is grammatical, although unnecessar= y in this simple case.

<= div>Well, I meant for moving {fai} inwards. {ke} doesnt work as {faixipa}.<= /div>

=C2=A0({jai <ke [jai ri'a broda] KE'E&g= t;} {<fai do> VAU})

Neither {be} is able to move it inwards:
({<jai [jai ri'a broda]> <be [fai do] BE'O>} V= AU)

As for {faixipa} why do we start counting = with {pa} from the inside, not from the outside}?

= And the current parsers currently don't provide inner links of what lin= ks what, they dont provide enough formalization. Compare this with FA where= jbofi'e clearly understands which sumti fills which place of which bri= di within the tree.

<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
=
mu'o mi'e xorxes


=

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