Received: from mail-lb0-f185.google.com ([209.85.217.185]:58833) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XjCaf-0006rF-9s for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:38:13 -0700 Received: by mail-lb0-f185.google.com with SMTP id b6sf110487lbj.2 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:37:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=y43/Fmf2v7M0W2qRA69SJEGSna8BjOhLc0mBXAhI7Cg=; b=ARfNcxDN3hYxhlA9eWWQAMOw0yNjJv+1qa37qysZRDgEndc9hWRW1bSd9TUNKnR1Ur Bhzhh3ZrziGj/kwIcIbqKGq/nzj6HRmq9ndf9Y+KR7Qiq+WDs7dVh03Nka+m+95wby1t ZFv30ZBvxhVkSj83dSLpv2u7ZSRlSyRkpHAlkkHs0SfrUebTdSd1fKgRvSiLJy0hzBgK +g3cMqVpc6Rhq8Zln0tKeAh73aLV0nZj0a16NDKBiTO/nrzyEJGornpS59b1CrKJ3zyc zQBSa4vzrdecHsN8MTXcqOZM7m7rh2KPMJKQF0MA1LfuYXvSM5A9bsSuHVpl5s80ZICs kEaA== X-Received: by 10.180.9.65 with SMTP id x1mr33832wia.21.1414525071639; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:37:51 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.181.11.134 with SMTP id ei6ls755543wid.43.canary; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:37:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.194.242.36 with SMTP id wn4mr872419wjc.4.1414525071012; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net. [212.227.15.18]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ea4si394258lbc.0.2014.10.28.12.37.50 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.15.18 as permitted sender) client-ip=212.227.15.18; Received: from [192.168.2.118] ([93.220.83.14]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MaqeA-1XOnO01cyo-00KOnm for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 20:37:50 +0100 Message-ID: <544FF08F.2060206@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 20:37:51 +0100 From: selpa'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Lojban's Biggest Problem or Why Still Nobody Speaks It References: <544D34B1.7000000@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:daTxErIt5bUt4fClHHAPApVruojZBA0QOMXvW2RAQAehzYu6ava iZ5DiSlhr/iDqS+xrx/N/aRAOdvE1g4c/XdcFSx4Od2o+3BDu7PhykmAqTVnR5hauvIN8k5 Oeiw3yEMnQ/aJntXoLihkTeuaGKMUjtNOznylndHKuGFkmMI5hYWr3uAYIAdHEibLFYcnjc 7ZaH3p0chzew8cH8E7+Qg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.15.18 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=seladwa@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - la'o me. MorphemeAddict .me cusku di'e > I have always assumed that increased fluency will help a speaker both > create and decipher new words on the fly, especially lujvo. Is this not > the case? I would say it is very much the case (I know hundreds of rafsi and can make up lujvo on the fly if I want to), but there are way too many words missing for that to be practical. I really encourage anyone who thinks there is no vocabulary problem to try the experiment I outlined in the original post. And it's not just a technical problem of picking the right rafsi, but also a problem between different speakers of agreeing that a particular choice is okay. It usually doesn't go that smoothly, and certainly too slowly for that to be the optimal way to fix this hole. There must be a faster way; a bootstrapping phase that adds a few more thousand words. Only then is the on-the-fly method really practical, because then the new needed coinings per day, month or year are going to be much much fewer. Think about how many new words are added to the English language dictionary each year; it's not a large number. And how often do you see an everyday object and can't name it in English? How many of those times do you *invent* a word for it? mi'e la selpa'i mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.