Received: from mail-ee0-f62.google.com ([74.125.83.62]:43472) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XnUqi-000621-Aq for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 07:56:25 -0800 Received: by mail-ee0-f62.google.com with SMTP id e49sf713776eek.27 for ; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 07:56:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=iPFlJDphr2jU0MNB1CMO5n2oZcH1R6OEb1hgjut+NZk=; b=G30fSaEkbrDWtmZPWvQQ9gey/g3loop9RxqxeuunKv8RgfB06wr5N12JM6YxrokcDU 5fA/ihlgVfxj/mg3hnl8lfs9fIY65nGd61//t8tHunOFIAVMItAoUUZ0jCjHXHyxI8T8 wylcRbwuJ22ZsDJtRXv5u900Il5ilvws7ElfeDx9xbVpokPkhHbyip/+O4Fwwq+SkDG6 daY/VC8nU4pXsyCybCWlaetxiHR90Vu8klysXjgfP8DuVdEbHkFeE9vJTb1+5kDnLm2k Jmol4xyGdWa3mahSULYyUdSfm7FmK1pa11cT5iv/uInfTA6QOz7uuwD7rsvnp203jQlt OiLA== X-Received: by 10.152.1.67 with SMTP id 3mr1365lak.7.1415548573509; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 07:56:13 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.8.68 with SMTP id p4ls374220laa.52.gmail; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 07:56:12 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.137.202 with SMTP id qk10mr44186lbb.11.1415548572334; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 07:56:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x233.google.com (mail-wi0-x233.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c05::233]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r4si442053wia.0.2014.11.09.07.56.12 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 09 Nov 2014 07:56:12 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::233; Received: by mail-wi0-x233.google.com with SMTP id h11so8371010wiw.12 for ; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 07:56:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.101.102 with SMTP id ff6mr23385097wib.34.1415548572248; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 07:56:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.217.105.201 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 07:56:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20141109154145.GC8588@gonzales> References: <20141108030052.GC8542@gonzales> <20141108171036.GA10866@gonzales> <20141108220257.GA31242@gonzales> <20141108232204.GB31242@gonzales> <20141109145940.GA8588@gonzales> <20141109154145.GC8588@gonzales> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 12:56:11 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: tersmu 0.2 From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::233 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04182620cfaf5005076f1504 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --f46d04182620cfaf5005076f1504 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Martin Bays wrote: > * Sunday, 2014-11-09 at 12:38 -0300 - Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas >: > > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Martin Bays wrote: > > > * Sunday, 2014-11-09 - Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Martin Bays wrote: > > > > > * Saturday, 2014-11-08 - Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > > > > > > > ca ro nu mi xagji kei ko'a fasnu > > > > > > > > ,i ko'a nu ge ko'e fasnu gi ko'i fasnu > > > > > > > > ;i ko'i nu ko'o balvi ko'e > > > > > > > > .i ko'e nu mi klama lo zarci > > > > > > > > .i ko'o nu mi klama lo zdani > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand. Could you explain in this example at what tim= es > > > > > {ko'o balvi ko'e} would hold? > > > > > > > > The claim is that it holds each time I'm hungry. > > > > > > I mean, can you explain it in terms of ko'o and ko'e. > > > > I'm not sure what kind of explanation you mean. I examine each of the > times > > I'm hungry, I examine where ko'o is with respect to ko'e on each of tho= se > > occasions, and I determine that ko'o is after ko'e in all of them. > > But if ko'e and ko'o are fixed, how can this change from time to time? > In the same way that something being to the left of something else can change from time to time. Would you have the same objections if the tense involved was "zu'a" instead of "ba"? > What role does current time play in determining the truth value of {ko'o > balvi ko'e}? > None that I can see, unless you make it "ko'o nau balvi ko'e". mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --f46d04182620cfaf5005076f1504 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org>= wrote:
* Sunday, 2014-11-09 at 12:38 -03= 00 - Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllam= bias@gmail.com>:

> On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:
> > * Sunday, 2014-11-09 - Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Martin Bays= <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:
> > > > * Saturday, 2014-11-08 - Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <= ;jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> > > > > > > ca ro nu mi xagji kei k= o'a fasnu
> > > > > > > ,i ko'a nu ge ko'e fasnu gi ko&#= 39;i fasnu
> > > > > > > ;i ko'i nu ko'o balvi ko'e > > > > > > > .i ko'e nu mi klama lo zarci
> > > > > > > .i ko'o nu mi klama lo zdani
> > > >
> > > > I don't understand. Could you explain in this examp= le at what times
> > > > {ko'o balvi ko'e} would hold?
> > >
> > > The claim is that it holds each time I'm hungry.
> >
> > I mean, can you explain it in terms of ko'o and ko'e.
>
> I'm not sure what kind of explanation you mean. I examine each of = the times
> I'm hungry, I examine where ko'o is with respect to ko'e o= n each of those
> occasions, and I determine that ko'o is after ko'e in all of t= hem.

But if ko'e and ko'o are fixed, how can this change from tim= e to time?

In the same way that somethi= ng being to the left of something else can change from time to time. Would = you have the same objections if the tense involved was "zu'a"= instead of "ba"?
=C2=A0
What role does current time play in determining the truth value of {ko'= o
balvi ko'e}?

None that I can see= , unless you make it "ko'o nau balvi ko'e".=C2=A0

mu'o mi&#= 39;e xorxes

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