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Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 11:14:17 -0500
From: Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: tersmu 0.2
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* Sunday, 2014-11-09 at 12:56 -0300 - Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.co=
m>:

> On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:
>=20
> > * Sunday, 2014-11-09 at 12:38 -0300 - Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmai=
l.com
> > >:
> >
> > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:
> > > > * Sunday, 2014-11-09 - Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> > > > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:
> > > > > > * Saturday, 2014-11-08 - Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com=
>:
> > > > > > > > > ca ro nu mi xagji kei ko'a fasnu
> > > > > > > > > ,i ko'a nu ge ko'e fasnu gi ko'i fasnu
> > > > > > > > > ;i ko'i nu ko'o balvi ko'e
> > > > > > > > > .i ko'e nu mi klama lo zarci
> > > > > > > > > .i ko'o nu mi klama lo zdani
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't understand. Could you explain in this example at what t=
imes
> > > > > > {ko'o balvi ko'e} would hold?
> > > > >
> > > > > The claim is that it holds each time I'm hungry.
> > > >
> > > > I mean, can you explain it in terms of ko'o and ko'e.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure what kind of explanation you mean. I examine each of
> > > the times I'm hungry, I examine where ko'o is with respect to ko'e
> > > on each of those occasions, and I determine that ko'o is after
> > > ko'e in all of them.
> >
> > But if ko'e and ko'o are fixed, how can this change from time to time?
>=20
> In the same way that something being to the left of something else can
> change from time to time. Would you have the same objections if the tense
> involved was "zu'a" instead of "ba"?

No, that can clearly be time dependent.

But maybe with this analogy I see what you're getting at. Is it that:
considering {lo nu broda cu balvi lo nu brode} where the {lo} are taken
to get kinds,
to determine whether this is true at time t,
you look for instances of the kinds, i.e. actual events, somewhere near
time t, and somehow pick out a pair (e1,e2),
and finally return the truth value of balvi(e1,e2)
(which since e1 and e2 are now actual events, doesn't depend on t)
?

Is that what you mean? So kind of hiding the quantificational structure
by delegating it to a semantics of kinds?

> > What role does current time play in determining the truth value of {ko'o
> > balvi ko'e}?
>=20
> None that I can see, unless you make it "ko'o nau balvi ko'e".

Whatever it is that's involved in {ko'i fasnu} in the paragraph at
issue. So yes, something like {nau}.

Martin

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