Received: from mail-ob0-f186.google.com ([209.85.214.186]:42808) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XnaG7-0000ZX-7a for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:43:02 -0800 Received: by mail-ob0-f186.google.com with SMTP id uz6sf980027obc.13 for ; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:42:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=uyEDsmb6n6/+rZXsXWYwMGGA+PULhHjEiGZCyzlB0bM=; b=zI8zZ3Or57gd+L5TKnFAOhuUXScddslfe5EQxAg/Jd22bdf0hmdojQFYEkVc2jfITQ fZCNDIZDfHjIWh52ktfCWZ1KttfQkLD1nz79DuafGqZiiBQ4QgM7qS6UzyCW/9RKuGx9 bVxdezWQHFkEO3lhy4EV5nnC2AGttH31AQ3otRWeQ5Fk90sbcsULMNLWX0EkiUuutZcU BJQC7CI/X6ofAT8zjgbh/wG8Dnb4aMeqF0rTftRTrNLn5oRiu5Qgf2cwfWIp+XVfTHKO 7xKMropzAaJKBdnt07J/8V95ySFhDQC46UQKKsnTUF1E9jRH3rfxp6okrfFXIGe6JkEk rqLw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=uyEDsmb6n6/+rZXsXWYwMGGA+PULhHjEiGZCyzlB0bM=; b=IQEn6qgclFoqrsm5Y5khTf/eC7Ymp+dRNqJUoTUSr21cTdH5zN3oD1/6wn6FV2oQsf mRUxfT6dsniX8pU5zrnmtVdGbiOe4iJUtdkxh4LaEPiHynbWResocJ8FjcReSetE6DwQ 59IFEUyStqCa5N3R5JLOU48fkFSP9anpK5o9cKpMLoq7Isy5o3QkzKm5L5FW2VL0DVbF VHSZqwQxuWj5CXll2DasbqOTzYt1bPg5Kg6539jNFX7K9FhSt6eO/g9iI5Fdp8n8ABnl 9JZ7qxSFlra2WkiGfkFYA40IQUcw6Q4pUCwQWW9+J7eiIkZpXxFTZ2N+dRekElwuTkgj 5EMw== X-Received: by 10.140.20.175 with SMTP id 44mr419636qgj.4.1415569368021; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:42:48 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.93.66 with SMTP id c60ls1498843qge.69.gmail; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:42:47 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.140.37.83 with SMTP id q77mr603qgq.7.1415569367745; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:42:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 13:42:47 -0800 (PST) From: TR NS To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: se klani be lo kafkylerfu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: transfire@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_309_1466453041.1415569367184" X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- ------=_Part_309_1466453041.1415569367184 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Saturday, November 8, 2014 9:31:49 AM UTC-5, la gleki wrote: > > > > 2014-11-08 17:15 GMT+03:00 TR NS >: > >> >> >> On Sunday, November 2, 2014 12:26:12 PM UTC-5, la gleki wrote: >>> >>> just for the record. some stats. >>> we take irc logs, only sentences in lojban. >>> we count the number of words with a given letter multiplied by their >>> frequency divided by the number*frequency of all words. If the same letter >>> occurs more than once in a word we count it as a singular occurrence. We >>> limit ourselves only to the first 3000 most frequent words. >>> >>> we get: >>> [x] - found in 2.7% of all spoken in IRC logs words >>> ['] - 16.8% >>> [c] - 13.9% >>> [cx'] - 31.75% (at least one of those letters in each word) >>> [x'] - 19.47% (at least one of those letters in each word) >>> [cx] followed by a consonant - 2.11% >>> >>> to'u one of three words contains at least one of the three letters: ['] >>> or [x] or [c]. >>> >> >> So what can be done about it? I think it's clear that there are too many >> "static noise" sounds in the language. And as a logical language there is >> no reason that it has to rank so low in sound quality (one need only look >> at online polls to see that Chinese, which has similar qualities, never >> ranks well). >> > > What? Impossible. Mandarin has two levels of fighting statis noise: tones > and the rest part of the sound system that to some degree overlap. > > Hmm... I don't mean static as in "hard to understand" I just mean the nature of the sound which doesn't rank high as an aesthetically pleasant sound. Chinese consistently ranks in the top of worst sounding language polls. > May be there is something wrong with the noise chosen so that other > languages win? > What about Portuguese? > > That only time I've seen the sound of Portuguese praised is when they specifically single out Brazilian Portuguese. Btw, it would be interesting to see `j` added to the above stats. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_309_1466453041.1415569367184 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Saturday, November 8, 2014 9:31:49 AM UTC-5, la gleki w= rote:


2014-11-08 17:15 GMT+03:00 TR NS <tran...@gmail.com>= :

<= br>On Sunday, November 2, 2014 12:26:12 PM UTC-5, la gleki wrote:
just for the record. some st= ats.
we take irc logs, only sentences in lojban.
we count the= number of words with a given letter multiplied by their frequency divided = by the number*frequency of all words. If the same letter occurs more than o= nce in a word we count it as a singular occurrence. We limit ourselves only= to the first 3000 most frequent words.

we get:
[x]  - found in 2.7% of all spoken in IRC logs words
['] - 16.8%
[c] - 13.9%
[cx'] - 31.75% (at least one o= f those letters in each word)
[x'] - 19.47% (at least one of thos= e letters in each word)
[cx] followed by a consonant - 2.11%
<= br>
to'u one of three words contains at least one of the three le= tters: ['] or [x] or [c].

So what can be done about it?  I think it's clear that there ar= e too many "static noise" sounds in the language. And as a logical language= there is no reason that it has to rank so low in sound quality (one need o= nly look at online polls to see that Chinese, which has similar qualities, = never ranks well).

What? Imposs= ible. Mandarin has two levels of fighting statis noise: tones and the rest = part of the sound system that to some degree overlap.

<= /div>

Hmm... I don't mean stati= c as in "hard to understand" I just mean the nature of the sound which does= n't rank high as an aesthetically pleasant sound. Chinese consistently rank= s in the top of worst sounding language polls.
 
May be there is something wrong with the noise= chosen so that other languages win?
What about Portuguese?
=


That only= time I've seen the sound of Portuguese praised is when they specifically s= ingle out Brazilian Portuguese.

Btw, it would be i= nteresting to see `j` added to the above stats.

--
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