Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 15:13:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Browne <dersaidin@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Lojban's Biggest Problem or Why Still Nobody Speaks It
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The phrase, "traffic light" could mean lights that illuminate the road and 
traffic (i.e. "street lights"), or all of the light pollution from street 
lights and lights on cars.
This phrase communicates the concept not because it describes the concept 
so well, but because the phrase "traffic light" is specifically associated 
with that thing.

I think an association between a specific phrase and a specific thing comes 
with more usage, however in many cases lojban can be more precisely 
descriptive instead.

lo ma'efle jitro sinxa

imo this is a better semantic description of a traffic light than "traffic 
light" is.
This lojban phrase is missing is a strong association between this specific 
phrase and the specific thing. Is that association still required with a 
more detailed description?


On Monday, November 10, 2014 7:46:20 AM UTC+10, TR NS wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sunday, November 9, 2014 12:54:55 PM UTC-5, stevo wrote:
>>
>> Or at least a specific phrase that means 'traffic light', just as English 
>> uses not a single word, but a phrase. 
>>
>>  
> Maybe that's the kind of construct Lojban needs --a way to use two (or 
> more) words together that have a specific (gestalt?) meaning rather then a 
> metaphorical one. Yet I don't see how the grammar would allow it.
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>The phrase, "traffic light" could mean lights th=
at illuminate the road and traffic (i.e. "street lights"), or all of the li=
ght pollution from street lights and lights on cars.</div><div>This phrase =
communicates the concept not because it describes the concept so well, but =
because the phrase "traffic light" is specifically associated with that thi=
ng.</div></div><div><br></div><div>I think an association between a specifi=
c phrase and a specific thing comes with more usage, however in many cases =
lojban can be more precisely descriptive instead.<br></div><div><br></div>l=
o&nbsp;ma'efle&nbsp;jitro sinxa<div><br></div><div>imo this is a better sem=
antic description of a traffic light than "traffic light" is.</div><div>Thi=
s lojban phrase is missing is a strong association between this specific ph=
rase and the specific thing. Is that association still required with a more=
 detailed description?<br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br>On Monday, Nove=
mber 10, 2014 7:46:20 AM UTC+10, TR NS wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;paddi=
ng-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>On Sunday, November 9, 2014 12:54:5=
5 PM UTC-5, stevo wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace">Or at least a specif=
ic phrase that means 'traffic light', just as English uses not a single wor=
d, but a phrase.&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace=
"><br></div></div></blockquote><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Maybe that's the kind =
of construct Lojban needs --a way to use two (or more) words together that =
have a specific (gestalt?) meaning rather then a metaphorical one. Yet I do=
n't see how the grammar would allow it.</div><div><br></div></div></blockqu=
ote></div></div>

<p></p>

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