Received: from mail-ee0-f62.google.com ([74.125.83.62]:54934) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Xnicx-0003tB-Ts for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 22:39:08 -0800 Received: by mail-ee0-f62.google.com with SMTP id e49sf754810eek.7 for ; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 22:38:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=taAHNJuyY9fZ5Iq5ylueaRtD5Zm1Sgo8dcUmxwaVQ/A=; b=zI9ewrfEiMUFRcw7KIJvPJ9grTTZuZANYVgInRrq4NIcFdydTn1Zr1opzaFLfvsl1e drDHBqDW7AV3LOGF+Xz79psA6kUlTg2/urJxRjiMy8rT4dgJ0ctLtIJpLPqlRyuPxwb5 awdo4BM/uOPEXoV8fP+udRNqClpfeU46FPC9GrnYZPJV30vVP0B8EDVSDvMryXjrMM1C YA3c5J5Cc7rXPKyED7SeL2cIgsJrLJW1Mz3QPuyt+sStL6H6TdjpxcDKD6MCR3Pjss1i voJMax2ERWOWjmUe58nokbKDy2iMbeaHGNdNM0i8XoQ78WuhfulLANxSOlMtHjNty4Z/ nZbg== X-Received: by 10.180.75.198 with SMTP id e6mr73059wiw.21.1415601537324; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 22:38:57 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.88.39 with SMTP id bd7ls1522042wib.34.canary; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 22:38:56 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.194.206.10 with SMTP id lk10mr4985221wjc.3.1415601536671; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 22:38:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-x22b.google.com (mail-wg0-x22b.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gk3si527698wib.1.2014.11.09.22.38.56 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 09 Nov 2014 22:38:56 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b; Received: by mail-wg0-f43.google.com with SMTP id y10so8079463wgg.2 for ; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 22:38:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.190.19 with SMTP id gm19mr39963480wjc.51.1415601536564; Sun, 09 Nov 2014 22:38:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.103.65 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 22:38:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20141028022945.GA6097@gonzales> <20141030013306.GO4023@gonzales> <20141104010958.GA27496@gonzales> <20141105035457.GA7768@gonzales> <20141108171532.GB10866@gonzales> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:38:56 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: tersmu 0.2 From: Gleki Arxokuna To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bea3792bb07a805077b6aef X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --047d7bea3792bb07a805077b6aef Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2014-11-10 0:00 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Gleki Arxokuna > wrote: >> >> 2014-11-09 19:52 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Gleki Arxokuna < >>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Why not then say that >>>> {mi nelci la betis semau la mark} can mean "I like Betty more than >>>> Mark" where it in fact should have only one meaning "I like Betty more= than >>>> Mark does." ? >>>> >>> >>> Why is the version without "ne" equivalent to "mi ne semau la mark cu >>> nelci la betis"? Shouldn't it be equivalent to "la mark cu se zmadu lo = nu >>> mi nelci la betis", whatever that may mean? >>> >> >> Than what would zmadu3 mean there? >> > > I have no idea, I don't think it makes much sense. We have: > > (1) mi nelci la betis se mau la mark > (2) mi ne se mau la mark cu nelci la betis > (3) mi nelci la betis ne se mau la mark > > You say (1) can only mean something like (2), but the usual interpretatio= n > of sumti tcita is that they relate their sumti to the whole bridi in whic= h > they appear as a term, not to the x1 of that bridi. That gives "la mark c= u > se zmadu lo nu mi nelci la betis", which doesn't make much sense. > Alternatively, something that would make sense would be "la mark cu se > zmadu fi lo ka nelci", but that still leaves us with two options: "la mar= k > cu se zmadu mi lo ka ce'u nelci la betis" or "la mark cu se zmadu la beti= s > lo ka mi nelci ce'u". Both seem to be available as interpretations for (1= ). > okay, if do'o think your interpretation is easier to implement then let it be so. But I suppose in (1) to add zmadu3 one needs to add {temau ko'u}. And in this case the supra-syntactic parser should restore the place structure of zmadu from its pieces {semau} and {temau}. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7bea3792bb07a805077b6aef Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2014-11-10 0:00 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com= >:


On = Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@g= mail.com> wrote:
2014-11-= 09 19:52 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Gleki= Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

Why not then say that
{mi nelci la betis semau la mark} can mean "I like Betty more than M= ark" where it in fact should have only one meaning "I like Betty = more than Mark does." ?

<= /div>
Why is the version without "ne" equivalent to &q= uot;mi ne semau la mark cu nelci la betis"? Shouldn't it be equiva= lent to "la mark cu se zmadu lo nu mi nelci la betis", whatever t= hat may mean?=C2=A0

Than what would zmadu3 mean there?

I have no idea, I don't think it ma= kes much sense. We have:

(1) mi nelci la betis se = mau la mark
(2) mi ne se mau la mark cu nelci la betis
= (3) mi nelci la betis ne se mau la mark

You say (1= ) can only mean something like (2), but the usual interpretation of sumti t= cita is that they relate their sumti to the whole bridi in which they appea= r as a term, not to the x1 of that bridi. That gives "la mark cu se zm= adu lo nu mi nelci la betis", which doesn't make much sense. Alter= natively, something that would make sense would be "la mark cu se zmad= u fi lo ka nelci", but that still leaves us with two options: "la= mark cu se zmadu mi lo ka ce'u nelci la betis" or "la mark c= u se zmadu la betis lo ka mi nelci ce'u". Both seem to be availabl= e as interpretations for (1).

=
okay, if do'o think your interpretation is easier to impleme= nt then let it be so.

But I suppose in (1) to add = zmadu3 one needs to add {temau ko'u}. And in this case the supra-syntac= tic parser should restore the place structure of zmadu =C2=A0from its piece= s {semau} and {temau}.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--047d7bea3792bb07a805077b6aef--