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[2a00:1450:400c:c05::235]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ed6si772681wib.3.2014.11.10.23.30.11 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:30:11 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::235 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::235; Received: by mail-wi0-f181.google.com with SMTP id n3so721549wiv.2 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:30:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.9.33 with SMTP id w1mr38547612wia.22.1415691011849; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:30:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.103.65 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:30:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <01817a67-0775-4bb1-896c-d676a303f996@googlegroups.com> References: <9c52fa78-dbab-4191-ae61-852c5f1b6dff@googlegroups.com> <01817a67-0775-4bb1-896c-d676a303f996@googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 10:30:11 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: se klani be lo kafkylerfu From: Gleki Arxokuna To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::235 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2406cdf85210507903fb5 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --001a11c2406cdf85210507903fb5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2014-11-11 10:17 GMT+03:00 TR NS : > > > On Monday, November 10, 2014 1:58:03 PM UTC-5, la gleki wrote: >> >> >> >> 2014-11-10 21:38 GMT+03:00 TR NS : >> >> On Monday, November 10, 2014 2:08:02 AM UTC-5, la gleki wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Okay, I thought you were talking about signal to noise ratio. >>>> As for Chinese being aesthetically not pleasing then this was >>>> certainly a biased poll. Then why would >1 billion of speakers of various >>>> dialects still use it? Why won't they start speaking let's say English >>>> instead? :D >>>> >>> >>> 300 million have --and learning a new language is not an easy thing to >>> do. >>> >> >> If you read Chinese polls you would certainly find them saying that >> English is not aesthetically pleasing. >> The Chinese find English as having too many consonants and too many >> consonant clusters. It's hard for them to learn this language. Obviously >> harder that Korean or Japanese. >> >> But since you were searching English polls no wonder that they are in >> favor of English. >> Search Chinese polls and you'll find the opposite opinion. >> >> > So do you actually know Chinese? > I only asked my Chinese friends of their opinion on English. This is what they said on phonology. Also one must consider extreme politeness of Asian people. They often say things that won't hurt you. I doubt lo'e Asian can say "I hate English/Italian" or of any other language. Thus, I can only consider "hard to pronounce" criterion since "not aesthetically pleasing" might not be formalizable and measurable. However, the time one needs to master fluency in phonology can be measured. > I tried to get a feel for the opinions of Chinese/Asian peoples on these > matters but its hard to find anything on the Internet not being able to > read their languages. Google translate wasn't helpful enough. Fortunately I > do have a few Chinese and Japanese relatives so I can at least ask them for > their opinion. > > Btw, my favorite sounding language is Arabic -- I am trying to be as > objective as I possibly can be. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c2406cdf85210507903fb5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2014-11-11 10:17 GMT+03:00 TR NS <transfire@gmail.com>= :


On Monday, Nov= ember 10, 2014 1:58:03 PM UTC-5, la gleki wrote:


2014-= 11-10 21:38 GMT+03:00 TR NS <tran...@gmail.com&= gt;:

On Monday, November 10, 2014 2:08:02 AM UTC-5, la gleki wr= ote:

Okay, I thought you were talking abou= t signal to noise ratio.
As for Chinese being aesthetically not p= leasing =C2=A0then this was certainly a biased poll. Then why would >1 b= illion of speakers of various dialects still use it? Why won't they sta= rt speaking let's say English instead? :D

300 million have --and learning a new lan= guage is not an easy thing to do.

If you read Chinese polls you would certainly find them saying that Engl= ish is not aesthetically pleasing.
The Chinese find English as ha= ving too many consonants and too many consonant clusters. It's hard for= them to learn this language. Obviously harder that Korean or Japanese.

But since you were searching English polls no wonder = that they are in favor of English.
Search Chinese polls and you&#= 39;ll find the opposite opinion.


So do you actually know Chinese?= =C2=A0

I only asked my Chinese = =C2=A0friends of their opinion on English. This is what they said on phonol= ogy.

Also one must consider extreme politeness of = Asian people. They often say things that won't hurt you. I doubt lo'= ;e Asian can say "I hate English/Italian" or of any other languag= e.

Thus, I can only consider "hard to pronoun= ce" criterion since "not aesthetically pleasing" might not b= e formalizable and measurable.
However, the time one needs to mas= ter fluency in phonology can be measured.


I tried to get a fee= l for the opinions of Chinese/Asian peoples on these matters but its hard t= o find anything on the Internet not being able to read their languages. Goo= gle translate wasn't helpful enough. Fortunately I do have a few Chines= e and Japanese relatives so I can at least ask them for their opinion.=C2= =A0

Btw, my favorite sounding language is Arabic -= - I am trying to be as objective as I possibly can be.

=

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