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[2a00:1450:400c:c05::234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n9si571252wix.0.2014.11.16.08.16.08 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 16 Nov 2014 08:16:08 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::234 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::234; Received: by mail-wi0-x234.google.com with SMTP id hi2so6809208wib.13 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 08:16:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.190.19 with SMTP id gm19mr31433420wjc.51.1416154568676; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 08:16:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.103.65 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 08:16:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20141028022945.GA6097@gonzales> <20141030013306.GO4023@gonzales> <20141104010958.GA27496@gonzales> <20141105035457.GA7768@gonzales> <20141108171532.GB10866@gonzales> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 19:16:08 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: tersmu 0.2 From: Gleki Arxokuna To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bea3792038fa50507fc2e21 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --047d7bea3792038fa50507fc2e21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2014-11-10 9:38 GMT+03:00 Gleki Arxokuna : > > > 2014-11-10 0:00 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Gleki Arxokuna < >> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> 2014-11-09 19:52 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : >>>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Gleki Arxokuna < >>>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Why not then say that >>>>> {mi nelci la betis semau la mark} can mean "I like Betty more than >>>>> Mark" where it in fact should have only one meaning "I like Betty mor= e than >>>>> Mark does." ? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Why is the version without "ne" equivalent to "mi ne semau la mark cu >>>> nelci la betis"? Shouldn't it be equivalent to "la mark cu se zmadu lo= nu >>>> mi nelci la betis", whatever that may mean? >>>> >>> >>> Than what would zmadu3 mean there? >>> >> >> I have no idea, I don't think it makes much sense. We have: >> >> (1) mi nelci la betis se mau la mark >> (2) mi ne se mau la mark cu nelci la betis >> (3) mi nelci la betis ne se mau la mark >> >> You say (1) can only mean something like (2), but the usual >> interpretation of sumti tcita is that they relate their sumti to the who= le >> bridi in which they appear as a term, not to the x1 of that bridi. That >> gives "la mark cu se zmadu lo nu mi nelci la betis", which doesn't make >> much sense. Alternatively, something that would make sense would be "la >> mark cu se zmadu fi lo ka nelci", but that still leaves us with two >> options: "la mark cu se zmadu mi lo ka ce'u nelci la betis" or "la mark = cu >> se zmadu la betis lo ka mi nelci ce'u". Both seem to be available as >> interpretations for (1). >> > I forgot to add that {sepi'o} and {bau} have been long in usage with the meaning of {fa ko'a ne sepi'o/bau} so one has to somehow deal with it. > okay, if do'o think your interpretation is easier to implement then let i= t > be so. > > But I suppose in (1) to add zmadu3 one needs to add {temau ko'u}. And in > this case the supra-syntactic parser should restore the place structure o= f > zmadu from its pieces {semau} and {temau}. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7bea3792038fa50507fc2e21 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2014-11-10 9:38 GMT+03:00 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@g= mail.com>:


2014-11-10 0:00 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <<= a href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jjllambias@gmail.c= om>:

<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Sun, Nov = 9, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
2014-11-09 19:52 GM= T+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <= span dir=3D"ltr"><gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

Why not then say that
{mi ne= lci la betis semau la mark} can mean "I like Betty more than Mark"= ; where it in fact should have only one meaning "I like Betty more tha= n Mark does." ?

Why is the version without "ne" equivalent to "mi n= e semau la mark cu nelci la betis"? Shouldn't it be equivalent to = "la mark cu se zmadu lo nu mi nelci la betis", whatever that may = mean?=C2=A0

=
Than what would zmadu3 mean there?

I have no idea, I don't think it makes much= sense. We have:

(1) mi nelci la betis se mau la m= ark
(2) mi ne se mau la mark cu nelci la betis
(3) mi n= elci la betis ne se mau la mark

You say (1) can on= ly mean something like (2), but the usual interpretation of sumti tcita is = that they relate their sumti to the whole bridi in which they appear as a t= erm, not to the x1 of that bridi. That gives "la mark cu se zmadu lo n= u mi nelci la betis", which doesn't make much sense. Alternatively= , something that would make sense would be "la mark cu se zmadu fi lo = ka nelci", but that still leaves us with two options: "la mark cu= se zmadu mi lo ka ce'u nelci la betis" or "la mark cu se zma= du la betis lo ka mi nelci ce'u". Both seem to be available as int= erpretations for (1).

I forgot to add that {sepi'o} = and {bau} have been long in usage with the meaning of {fa ko'a ne sepi&= #39;o/bau} so one has to somehow deal with it.


okay, if do'o think your interpretation is easier to implement then = let it be so.

But I suppose in (1) to add zmadu3 o= ne needs to add {temau ko'u}. And in this case the supra-syntactic pars= er should restore the place structure of zmadu =C2=A0from its pieces {semau= } and {temau}.


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