Received: from mail-pd0-f188.google.com ([209.85.192.188]:58856) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XsABb-0004Pz-Ud for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 04:53:13 -0800 Received: by mail-pd0-f188.google.com with SMTP id v10sf927600pde.25 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 04:53:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=zXL4zD14RLnKjFQbb/A2xBXOnnjnYJ5oVnFLYYC9Kco=; b=NJiHgpxD4R13z6ZqED++9E7VWUzS0Z5CWI42RMx0dhjl17CBroD/oTmP7FriBXTwUt +YEEYnMMe7qJFeAw67fEGo85JxalTDa7/v+e0bzfj+Xg1hi6hEFTYbnp9A4rcJGdxV81 cWpCiwnMO4sCxgMjVM64ybhWc3kllVUORChvk9mgH1/1bGOX94XYoIuiA5zCK6vT50Ey yb78IvUd0fGndzBquO7S5dYqs0YiJCEjYTD+ga4obfQrXTlvxzAuGGJX5MNwbejnS3nH o0ENqvIGcPUpg0A1v1OZAp+f55WOpAvolXm5np4FCGFMpCRSSHBQMyDlsRVpQjwgv1uK /q7w== X-Received: by 10.140.20.108 with SMTP id 99mr114qgi.15.1416660784998; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 04:53:04 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.32.3 with SMTP id g3ls1165797qgg.8.gmail; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 04:53:04 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.140.20.175 with SMTP id 44mr179176qgj.4.1416660784766; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 04:53:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 04:53:04 -0800 (PST) From: "la .gusek." To: lojban@googlegroups.com Cc: phma@bezitopo.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2022609.cTRFnCMaBH@caracal> References: <2022609.cTRFnCMaBH@caracal> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Let's create a word: Wasabi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_1329_11135483.1416660784424" X-Original-Sender: gunnar_secret@hotmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.0 X-Spam_score_int: -9 X-Spam_bar: - ------=_Part_1329_11135483.1416660784424 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1330_322985492.1416660784424" ------=_Part_1330_322985492.1416660784424 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Den l=C3=B6rdagen den 22:e november 2014 kl. 06:03:27 UTC+1 skrev Pierre Ab= bat: > Vlatai was written before there was a precise analysis of what a Lojban= =20 > syllable is.=20 > Okay, that I didn't know. Then it might make sense to just keep this word= =20 (stanruasabi) as is, I guess? Anyone disagree? > I don't have any problem with creating stage-4's straight off. I do make= =20 > stage-3's when the foreign part is too short (e.g. bakrto), doesn't fit= =20 > well=20 > into stage-4 shape, or would be ambiguous between two very different=20 > things=20 > (e.g. rutrmalpigi, ragrmalpigi). "sorpeka" was shortened from a lujvo, no= t=20 > a=20 > stage-3.=20 > I know I should probably be more open minded to straigt-to-stage-4 words,= =20 but for now I'm hesitant to make them myself. If someone feels the need of= =20 a stage-4 from a stage-3 I've created, I hope they can create such a word.= =20 I guess I see stage-3 as some kind of necessary intermediate before full=20 loan, in parallel to how it often works in natlangs (original=20 spelling/pronounciation -> [heavy usage] -> full native word). Yes I'm aware that it's a shortened lujvo, it was just a good example that= =20 popped into my mind since I used "sorprekarce" a lot and myself experienced= =20 the need for a shortened form in my daily Lojban usage. I would argue that= =20 lujvo and stage-3 share a lot of characteristics though, since they both=20 are bound by morphological rules and their form official and controlled. > I think that there should be a clear distinction between stage 3 and stag= e=20 > 4.=20 > Once I borrowed a word "turndun" (an Australian noisemaker, also called a= =20 > bullroarer). At first I got "turndunu", but that is a stage-3 for some=20 > kind of=20 > structure, so I altered it to "turdunu".=20 > That's indeed quite interesting, I will keep that in mind. Thank you all. I hope this discussion wasn't offending anyone! I'm=20 currently spending a lot of time daily to try to help expand our=20 dictionary, and I would like to do it as careful and quality controlled as= =20 I possibly can. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_1330_322985492.1416660784424 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Den l=C3=B6rdagen den 22:e november 2014 kl. 06:03:27 UTC+= 1 skrev Pierre Abbat:
Vlata= i was written before there was a precise analysis of what a Lojban=20
syllable is.
Okay, that I didn't know. Then it might make sense to= just keep this word (stanruasabi) as is, I guess? Anyone disagree?
I don't have any problem wit= h creating stage-4's straight off. I do make=20
stage-3's when the foreign part is too short (e.g. bakrto), doesn't fit= well=20
into stage-4 shape, or would be ambiguous between two very different th= ings=20
(e.g. rutrmalpigi, ragrmalpigi). "sorpeka" was shortened from a lujvo, = not a=20
stage-3.
I know I should probably be more open minded to strai= gt-to-stage-4 words, but for now I'm hesitant to make them myself. If someo= ne feels the need of a stage-4 from a stage-3 I've created, I hope they can= create such a word. I guess I see stage-3 as some kind of necessary interm= ediate before full loan, in parallel to how it often works in natlangs (ori= ginal spelling/pronounciation -> [heavy usage] -> full native word).<= br>
Yes I'm aware that it's a shortened lujvo, it was just a good exampl= e that popped into my mind since I used "sorprekarce" a lot and myself expe= rienced the need for a shortened form in my daily Lojban usage. I would arg= ue that lujvo and stage-3 share a lot of characteristics though, since they= both are bound by morphological rules and their form official and controll= ed.
I think that ther= e should be a clear distinction between stage 3 and stage 4.=20
Once I borrowed a word "turndun" (an Australian noisemaker, also called= a=20
bullroarer). At first I got "turndunu", but that is a stage-3 for some = kind of=20
structure, so I altered it to "turdunu".
That's indeed quite interesting, I will keep that in = mind.

Thank you all. I hope this discussion wasn't offending anyone!= I'm currently spending a lot of time daily to try to help expand our dicti= onary, and I would like to do it as careful and quality controlled as I pos= sibly can.

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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