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Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:11:25 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: tersmu 0.2
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:

>
> So for example, if yesterday morning it snowed out of a clear sky, but
> in the afternoon it snowed while the sky was cloudy, and both of these
> events are salient, what could you say about the truth value of
> {ca lo prulamdei zo'u lo snime cu carvi .i je nai ca bo lo dilnu cu
> gapru}?
>

I would say its truth value is the same as the truth value of "ca lo
prulamdei zo'u ca lo nu lo snime cu carvi kei lo dilnu cu gapru".

I wouldn't say it's definitely true or false under the circumstances
described, just as I wouldn't say that "lo kadno lanci cu xunre" is
definitely true or false. I'd say it's a pragmatically inadequate thing to
say in isolation, because "cabna" is not very well defined when cabna2 is
an event that happens more than once, just as "xunre" is not very well
defined when xunre1 is multicolored.

I am understanding you as saying it would be false, while I would have
> expected it to be true.


So you would expect both of these to be true:

 ca lo prulamdei zo'u lo snime cu carvi .i je nai ca bo lo dilnu cu gapru

 ca lo prulamdei zo'u lo snime cu carvi .i je ca bo lo dilnu cu gapru

? They may seem contradictory but they are not because of the hidden "su'o"
you are assuming. I'd prefer to go with:

 ca lo prulamdei zo'u lo snime cu carvi .i je nai ro roi bo lo dilnu cu
gapru

 ca lo prulamdei zo'u lo snime cu carvi .i je su'o roi bo lo dilnu cu gapru

(where I'm using "PA roi bo" with tense-like semantics).

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Martin Bays <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mbays@sdf.org" target=3D"_blank">mbays@sdf.org</a>&gt;</span=
> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-s=
tyle:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><br>
</span>So for example, if yesterday morning it snowed out of a clear sky, b=
ut<br>
in the afternoon it snowed while the sky was cloudy, and both of these<br>
events are salient, what could you say about the truth value of<br>
{ca lo prulamdei zo&#39;u lo snime cu carvi .i je nai ca bo lo dilnu cu<br>
gapru}?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I would say its truth value is =
the same as the truth value of &quot;ca lo prulamdei zo&#39;u ca lo nu lo s=
nime cu carvi kei lo dilnu cu gapru&quot;.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I=
 wouldn&#39;t say it&#39;s definitely true or false under the circumstances=
 described, just as I wouldn&#39;t say that &quot;lo kadno lanci cu xunre&q=
uot; is definitely true or false. I&#39;d say it&#39;s a pragmatically inad=
equate thing to say in isolation, because &quot;cabna&quot; is not very wel=
l defined when cabna2 is an event that happens more than once, just as &quo=
t;xunre&quot; is not very well defined when xunre1 is multicolored.</div><d=
iv><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-=
style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
I am understanding you as saying it would be false, while I would have<br>
expected it to be true.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>So you would expect=
 both of these to be true:</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0ca lo prulamdei z=
o&#39;u lo snime cu carvi .i je nai ca bo lo dilnu cu gapru</div><div><br><=
/div><div>=C2=A0ca lo prulamdei zo&#39;u lo snime cu carvi .i je ca bo lo d=
ilnu cu gapru</div><div><br></div><div>? They may seem contradictory but th=
ey are not because of the hidden &quot;su&#39;o&quot; you are assuming. I&#=
39;d prefer to go with:</div><div><br></div><div><div>=C2=A0ca lo prulamdei=
 zo&#39;u lo snime cu carvi .i je nai ro roi bo lo dilnu cu gapru</div><div=
><br></div><div>=C2=A0ca lo prulamdei zo&#39;u lo snime cu carvi .i je su&#=
39;o roi bo lo dilnu cu gapru</div></div><div><br></div><div>(where I&#39;m=
 using &quot;PA roi bo&quot; with tense-like semantics).=C2=A0</div><div><b=
r></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></div></div=
>

<p></p>

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