Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:26:59 -0800 (PST)
From: la durka <durka42@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <ccebc81f-ae84-40ef-9177-703a93c223d9@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAO7tK2eYD0OF5t70RoZfoV1H7n+fnQaurofcvGVStj-t7FBydQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54C80768.7020101@gmail.com>
 <CAO7tK2eYD0OF5t70RoZfoV1H7n+fnQaurofcvGVStj-t7FBydQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] {porsi}
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 
	boundary="----=_Part_6436_2125847686.1422422819576"
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Spam_score: 0.7
X-Spam_score_int: 7
X-Spam_bar: /
X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org",
 has NOT identified this incoming email as spam.  The original
 message has been attached to this so you can view it or label
 similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
 @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details.
 
 Content preview:  I think there has to be a distinction between "ordered set"
    and "sequence", no? Lojban seemingly conflates the two, but they're not the
    same -- a set, ordered or not, can't have duplicate elements, but a sequence
    can. [...] 
 
 Content analysis details:   (0.7 points, 5.0 required)
 
  pts rule name              description
 ---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
  0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED          ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked.
                             See
                             http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block
                              for more information.
                             [URIs: googlegroups.com]
  2.7 DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL    RBL: Envelope sender listed in dnsbl.ahbl.org
                             [listed in googlegroups.com.rhsbl.ahbl.org.	IN]
                             [A]
 -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3      RBL: Good reputation (+3)
                             [209.85.218.55 listed in wl.mailspike.net]
  0.0 T_HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail
                             domains are different
 -0.0 SPF_PASS               SPF: sender matches SPF record
  0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM          Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
                             (durka42[at]gmail.com)
  0.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
 -1.9 BAYES_00               BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1%
                             [score: 0.0000]
 -0.1 DKIM_VALID             Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
 -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU          Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's
                             domain
  0.1 DKIM_SIGNED            Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid
  0.0 T_FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and
                             EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different
 -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL      Mailspike good senders

------=_Part_6436_2125847686.1422422819576
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_6437_1436623463.1422422819577"

------=_Part_6437_1436623463.1422422819577
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I think there has to be a distinction between "ordered set" and "sequence",=
=20
no? Lojban seemingly conflates the two, but they're not the same -- a set,=
=20
ordered or not, can't have duplicate elements, but a sequence can.

- mu'o mi'e la durkavore

El martes, 27 de enero de 2015, 18:06:48 (UTC-5), xorxes escribi=C3=B3:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Ilmen <ilmen....@gmail.com <javascript:>=
>=20
> wrote:
>
>>
>> If you think that the letter sequence "brodo" can satisfy {porsi}'s x1,=
=20
>> I'd be grateful if you could show me the Lojban definition of the sortin=
g=20
>> rule that can output the sequence "brodo" when applied to the unordered =
set=20
>> of letters {b,r,o,d}. :)
>>
>
> In my view, ro da poi porsi cu gunma lo te porsi be da, so porsi3 are all=
=20
> the members of porsi1, not just the member types. So for example the=20
> sequence of digits in the decimal expansion of pi has an infinite number =
of=20
> elements, not just ten.
>
> Describing the porsi2 of [b,r,o,d,o] is a pain because it's an arbitrary=
=20
> sequence, not one that follows some simple rule. Since we're going to nee=
d=20
> to refer to two instances of the letter "o" we can use the pronouns ".o b=
u=20
> xi pa" and ".o bu xi re" for each instance, and "by", "ry" and "dy" for t=
he=20
> other three letter instances. Then porsi2 could be something like "lo du'=
u=20
> ge by cu pa moi gi ge ry cu re moi gi ge .o bu xi pa cu ci moi gi ge dy c=
u=20
> vo moi gi ,o bu xi re cu mu moi".
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
>

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

------=_Part_6437_1436623463.1422422819577
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I think there has to be a distinction between "ordered set=
" and "sequence", no? Lojban seemingly conflates the two, but they're not t=
he same -- a set, ordered or not, can't have duplicate elements, but a sequ=
ence can.<br><br>- mu'o mi'e la durkavore<br><br>El martes, 27 de enero de =
2015, 18:06:48 (UTC-5), xorxes escribi=C3=B3:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;paddi=
ng-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On =
Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Ilmen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"javasc=
ript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"IQq-0DWx2mgJ" rel=3D"nofo=
llow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'javascript:';return true;" onclick=3D"thi=
s.href=3D'javascript:';return true;">ilmen....@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wro=
te:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20

   =20
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><br>
    If you think that the letter sequence "brodo" can satisfy {porsi}'s
    x1, I'd be grateful if you could show me the Lojban definition of
    the sorting rule that can output the sequence "brodo" when applied
    to the unordered set of letters {b,r,o,d}. :)</div></blockquote><div><b=
r></div><div>In my view, ro da poi porsi cu gunma lo te porsi be da, so por=
si3 are all the members of porsi1, not just the member types. So for exampl=
e the sequence of digits in the decimal expansion of pi has an infinite num=
ber of elements, not just ten.</div><div><br></div><div>Describing the pors=
i2 of [b,r,o,d,o] is a pain because it's an arbitrary sequence, not one tha=
t follows some simple rule. Since we're going to need to refer to two insta=
nces of the letter "o" we can use the pronouns ".o bu xi pa" and ".o bu xi =
re" for each instance, and "by", "ry" and "dy" for the other three letter i=
nstances. Then porsi2 could be something like "lo du'u ge by cu pa moi gi g=
e ry cu re moi gi ge .o bu xi pa cu ci moi gi ge dy cu vo moi gi ,o bu xi r=
e cu mu moi".</div><div><br></div><div>mu'o mi'e xorxes</div><div><br></div=
></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsub=
scribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban">http:=
//groups.google.com/group/lojban</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

------=_Part_6437_1436623463.1422422819577--
------=_Part_6436_2125847686.1422422819576--