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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 14:38:53 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] {porsi}
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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 Content preview:  On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>
    wrote: > > On 28/01/2015 00:06, Jorge Llambías wrote: > >> >> Describing
    the porsi2 of [b,r,o,d,o] is a pain because it's an arbitrary >> sequence,
    not one that follows some simple rule. Since we're going to need >> to refer
    to two instances of the letter "o" we can use the pronouns ".o bu >> xi pa"
    and ".o bu xi re" for each instance, and "by", "ry" and "dy" for the >> other
    three letter instances. Then porsi2 could be something like "lo du'u >> ge
    by cu pa moi gi ge ry cu re moi gi ge .o bu xi pa cu ci moi gi ge dy cu >>
    vo moi gi ,o bu xi re cu mu moi". >> > > "N moi" is a claim stating a relation
    between three arguments and a > number. What are the x2 and x3 of moi there
    so that the bridi's claim holds > true? [...] 
 
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On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 28/01/2015 00:06, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote:
>
>>
>> Describing the porsi2 of [b,r,o,d,o] is a pain because it's an arbitrary
>> sequence, not one that follows some simple rule. Since we're going to ne=
ed
>> to refer to two instances of the letter "o" we can use the pronouns ".o =
bu
>> xi pa" and ".o bu xi re" for each instance, and "by", "ry" and "dy" for =
the
>> other three letter instances. Then porsi2 could be something like "lo du=
'u
>> ge by cu pa moi gi ge ry cu re moi gi ge .o bu xi pa cu ci moi gi ge dy =
cu
>> vo moi gi ,o bu xi re cu mu moi".
>>
>
> "N moi" is a claim stating a relation between three arguments and a
> number. What are the x2 and x3 of moi there so that the bridi's claim hol=
ds
> true?


x2 is the same as porsi3. x3 can be zi'o'ed out, since all we need is an
appropriate mapping to the naturals, which we are giving.

I think {moi} is totally inappropriate there, as we need a sorting rule for
> defining another sorting rule; porsi-2 should at least be an unary proper=
ty
> of porsi-1, and I guess that {lidne} or {li'erla'i} is the way to go for
> building up the sequence.
>
> {porsi lo ka fi ce'u li'erla'i fa by fe ry gi'e li'erla'i fa ry fe .obu
> gi'e.....}
>
> pei


Taking porsi2 to be a property of porsi1 ? I guess.

My first thought, before giving an explicit mapping to (an initial segment
of) the naturals, was to give an ordering relation, but that's even longer
than yours, something like "lo ka ce'u xi pa goi ko'a ce'u xi re goi ko'e
zo'u tu'e ganai ge ko'a du by gi ko'e du ry gi ko'a lidne ko'e ;i je ga nai
ge ko'a du ...". But then you will say that you want to know what lidne3
is, and so I have to zi'o it out again.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Ilmen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><br>
On 28/01/2015 00:06, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Describing the porsi2 of [b,r,o,d,o] is a pain because it&#39;s an arbitrar=
y sequence, not one that follows some simple rule. Since we&#39;re going to=
 need to refer to two instances of the letter &quot;o&quot; we can use the =
pronouns &quot;.o bu xi pa&quot; and &quot;.o bu xi re&quot; for each insta=
nce, and &quot;by&quot;, &quot;ry&quot; and &quot;dy&quot; for the other th=
ree letter instances. Then porsi2 could be something like &quot;lo du&#39;u=
 ge by cu pa moi gi ge ry cu re moi gi ge .o bu xi pa cu ci moi gi ge dy cu=
 vo moi gi ,o bu xi re cu mu moi&quot;.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
&quot;N moi&quot; is a claim stating a relation between three arguments and=
 a number. What are the x2 and x3 of moi there so that the bridi&#39;s clai=
m holds true?</blockquote><div><br></div><div>x2 is the same as porsi3. x3 =
can be zi&#39;o&#39;ed out, since all we need is an appropriate mapping to =
the naturals, which we are giving.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex">
I think {moi} is totally inappropriate there, as we need a sorting rule for=
 defining another sorting rule; porsi-2 should at least be an unary propert=
y of porsi-1, and I guess that {lidne} or {li&#39;erla&#39;i} is the way to=
 go for building up the sequence.<br>
<br>
{porsi lo ka fi ce&#39;u li&#39;erla&#39;i fa by fe ry gi&#39;e li&#39;erla=
&#39;i fa ry fe .obu gi&#39;e.....}<br>
<br>
pei</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Taking porsi2 to be a property of porsi=
1 ? I guess.</div><div><br></div><div>My first thought, before giving an ex=
plicit mapping to (an initial segment of) the naturals, was to give an orde=
ring relation, but that&#39;s even longer than yours, something like &quot;=
lo ka ce&#39;u xi pa goi ko&#39;a ce&#39;u xi re goi ko&#39;e zo&#39;u tu&#=
39;e ganai ge ko&#39;a du by gi ko&#39;e du ry gi ko&#39;a lidne ko&#39;e ;=
i je ga nai ge ko&#39;a du ...&quot;. But then you will say that you want t=
o know what lidne3 is, and so I have to zi&#39;o it out again.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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