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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 18:55:06 +0100
From: Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] {porsi}
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 Content preview:  On 28/01/2015 18:12, Ilmen wrote: > > On 28/01/2015 00:06,
    Jorge Llambías wrote: >> >> Describing the porsi2 of [b,r,o,d,o] is a pain
    because it's an >> arbitrary sequence, not one that follows some simple rule.
    Since >> we're going to need to refer to two instances of the letter "o"
   we >> can use the pronouns ".o bu xi pa" and ".o bu xi re" for each >> instance,
    and "by", "ry" and "dy" for the other three letter >> instances. Then porsi2
    could be something like "lo du'u ge by cu pa >> moi gi ge ry cu re moi gi
    ge .o bu xi pa cu ci moi gi ge dy cu vo moi >> gi ,o bu xi re cu mu moi".
    > > "N moi" is a claim stating a relation between three arguments and a >
    number. What are the x2 and x3 of moi there so that the bridi's claim > holds
    true? > > I think {moi} is totally inappropriate there, as we need a sorting
    > rule for defining another sorting rule; porsi-2 should at least be an >
    unary property of porsi-1, and I guess that {lidne} or {li'erla'i} is > the
    way to go for building up the sequence. > > {porsi lo ka fi ce'u li'erla'i
    fa by fe ry gi'e li'erla'i fa ry fe > .obu gi'e.....} > > pei [...] 
 
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On 28/01/2015 18:12, Ilmen wrote:
>
> On 28/01/2015 00:06, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote:
>>
>> Describing the porsi2 of [b,r,o,d,o] is a pain because it's an=20
>> arbitrary sequence, not one that follows some simple rule. Since=20
>> we're going to need to refer to two instances of the letter "o" we=20
>> can use the pronouns ".o bu xi pa" and ".o bu xi re" for each=20
>> instance, and "by", "ry" and "dy" for the other three letter=20
>> instances. Then porsi2 could be something like "lo du'u ge by cu pa=20
>> moi gi ge ry cu re moi gi ge .o bu xi pa cu ci moi gi ge dy cu vo moi=20
>> gi ,o bu xi re cu mu moi".
>
> "N moi" is a claim stating a relation between three arguments and a=20
> number. What are the x2 and x3 of moi there so that the bridi's claim=20
> holds true?
>
> I think {moi} is totally inappropriate there, as we need a sorting=20
> rule for defining another sorting rule; porsi-2 should at least be an=20
> unary property of porsi-1, and I guess that {lidne} or {li'erla'i} is=20
> the way to go for building up the sequence.
>
> {porsi lo ka fi ce'u li'erla'i fa by fe ry gi'e li'erla'i fa ry fe=20
> .obu gi'e.....}
>
> pei

Also, I used to think that {porsi}-x2 was a binary comparison function,=20
like {lo ka ce'u ce'u bramau} etc. (The word "comparison" is present in=20
the English definition of {porsi}).

Provided that porsi2 is an unary property of porsi1, the below is a=20
possible way to define the sequence [b,r,o,d,a] using {porsi}:

=E2=80=A2 { porsi  fa B ce'o R ce'o O ce'o D ce'o O  fi B ce R ce O ce D  f=
e=20
loka ce'u poi'i ge ke'a pormei li mu gi fi ke'a li'erla'i fa B fe R gi'e=20
li'erla'i fa R fe O gi'e li'erla'i fa O fe D gi'e li'erla'i fa D fe O }

And building an ordered set from the set {A, B, C} by sorting them by=20
size would require putting something like the below into porsi2:

=E2=80=A2 { lo ka ro da ro de zo'u ganai da de ce'u lidne gi da de branalme=
'a }

However then the place structure of {porsi} seems a little awkward, as=20
porsi3 is not necessary anymore and claiming "porsi1 cu ckaji fe porsi2"=20
is enough.

mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o


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